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Is my 8N a good candidate for electronic ignition?

T

timsch

Member
My front mount '49 8N is sitting in my front yard after failing to start yesterday evening and again this morning. I'll pull the distributer again this afternoon to check the points.

I've struggled for a while to have this thing reliable start. One problem is that it doesn't get used too much. Maybe once a month on average. 2nd problem is that I live on the gulf coast with plenty of humidity, so corrosion becomes a problem (not so close that I'm talking salt spray). Sometimes it'll startup immediately, like yesterday morning to my surprise. Usually, it will take several cranking rounds (~5 seconds each) before it fires off and runs well. Once running, it'll usually start easily shortly after if shut off. Thing is, I never can guess whether it will, or will just not start, like yesterday/today. It's got fuel. It will sputter but never start.

Is this the type of situation where electronic ignition would be well-suited?

I'm no old-timer with plenty of experience with points, although I follow directions pretty well, and have adjusted/cleaned the points a number of times. What I want now is to minimize my chances of failure to start.

I converted it to 12V a couple of years ago. All wiring had been checked/replaced at that time. The starter is strong, fuel not that old and is coming out of the drain plug fine, and battery is not too old. Plugs were replaced a few years ago. Wires checked out at that time. Addressing possible corrosion issues at the points, I bought a distributer gasket kit and tried to seal it up as well as I could, but the fit wasn't that great, so don't know how successuful I was.

Again, runs strong once started and doesn't quit until I shut it off, so I don't see that the advice to fix all of the other problems before converting to IE would apply here. I'd love to have a final solution and have a reliable tractor given my location and challenges.

p.s.
I've seen the debate in general and am not looking to start that again here - https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1119452.
Just trying to find a solution for my circumstances.

This post was edited by timsch on 12/10/2023 at 07:19 am.
 
Everything I have I converted to EI, I would recommend it to anyone in my opinion. I have a 62 Scout, 64 International pickup, 1955 Mercury, 1020 J.D.,1520 J.D. and all run and start better than they ever did with points and most have had it done 20+ years ago with zero problems.
 

I am on the EI side remember they both suffer from the same issues. Resolve those issues before you dive into it life will be good.

I have a 49 in the shop I had the go to convert it to EI. The tractor is un-know to me I have the ability (experience) to skip a few steps but know to confirm the system in front of me before I get into other possible issues.

Without going into this issue when the original system is in good working order it should light it off with a grunt are two of the starter. If its up to snuff and does not then I am looking at other possible issues.

On any no start are hard start I first confirm spark without a doubt. There is no guessing its confirmed. The few that I have converted to EI were when folks keep coming into the shop with the distributor in their hand and have a continuing problem with poor quality parts.

I got a call a few weeks ago on a N I had converted I thought on chit because this man is RUFF on everything he dose. He told me while charging the battery he burnt the lead off of his charger... WTF.

The fix was simple the starter was dragging.

One simple tip I will give ya it haunts a lot of tractors because it cannot be see easily and one that I dislike about a updraft carb. Remove the air tube off of the carb are pull it back. Leave the fuel on if it drips overtime its flooding the engine. EI are a well tuned points system struggle to light off a pig rich mixture.

Everyone has spare hoses for the intake tube dontcha life's to short to fiddle with old hard ones cut'em off install new hoses life will be good.
 
(quoted from post at 12:13:00 12/10/23)
Click to expand...

i put EI in my front mount 47 2N three years ago and my arthritic hands are thrilled about it.

my tractor was working fine when i made the switch. i didn't do it to make it work, i did it so i wouldn't have to keep removing the front mount dist for routine maintenance.

and considering how hard it's become to find decent points, i'm not looking back :D
 
Before you buy an EI kit buy a spark tester for a few bucks and see if the spark jumps 1/4" EI is only to trigger the coil, problems downstream will still be there.
 
(quoted from post at 11:13:00 12/10/23) My front mount '49 8N is sitting in my front yard after failing to start yesterday evening and again this morning. I'll pull the distributer again this afternoon to check the points.

I've struggled for a while to have this thing reliable start. One problem is that it doesn't get used too much. Maybe once a month on average. 2nd problem is that I live on the gulf coast with plenty of humidity, so corrosion becomes a problem (not so close that I'm talking salt spray). Sometimes it'll startup immediately, like yesterday morning to my surprise. Usually, it will take several cranking rounds (~5 seconds each) before it fires off and runs well. Once running, it'll usually start easily shortly after if shut off. Thing is, I never can guess whether it will, or will just not start, like yesterday/today. It's got fuel. It will sputter but never start.

Is this the type of situation where electronic ignition would be well-suited?

I'm no old-timer with plenty of experience with points, although I follow directions pretty well, and have adjusted/cleaned the points a number of times. What I want now is to minimize my chances of failure to start.

I converted it to 12V a couple of years ago. All wiring had been checked/replaced at that time. The starter is strong, fuel not that old and is coming out of the drain plug fine, and battery is not too old. Plugs were replaced a few years ago. Wires checked out at that time. Addressing possible corrosion issues at the points, I bought a distributer gasket kit and tried to seal it up as well as I could, but the fit wasn't that great, so don't know how successuful I was.

Again, runs strong once started and doesn't quit until I shut it off, so I don't see that the advice to fix all of the other problems before converting to IE would apply here. I'd love to have a final solution and have a reliable tractor given my location and challenges.

p.s.
I've seen the debate in general and am not looking to start that again here - https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1119452.
Just trying to find a solution for my circumstances.

This post was edited by timsch on 12/10/2023 at 07:19 am.
Click to expand...
n my experience it is almost always point corrosion on seldom used tractors. I have a solution that really works, but it involves running 120VAC thru the points without removing anything, ....BUT one must be very, very careful not to electrocute themselves or others in the process. Unless you know what you are doing & feel fine about working with voltages that can kill you, I say go with the EI.
 
(quoted from post at 12:13:00 12/10/23) My front mount '49 8N is sitting in my front yard after failing to start yesterday evening and again this morning. I'll pull the distributer again this afternoon to check the points.

I've struggled for a while to have this thing reliable start. One problem is that it doesn't get used too much. Maybe once a month on average. 2nd problem is that I live on the gulf coast with plenty of humidity, so corrosion becomes a problem (not so close that I'm talking salt spray). Sometimes it'll startup immediately, like yesterday morning to my surprise. Usually, it will take several cranking rounds (~5 seconds each) before it fires off and runs well. Once running, it'll usually start easily shortly after if shut off. Thing is, I never can guess whether it will, or will just not start, like yesterday/today. It's got fuel. It will sputter but never start.

Is this the type of situation where electronic ignition would be well-suited?

I'm no old-timer with plenty of experience with points, although I follow directions pretty well, and have adjusted/cleaned the points a number of times. What I want now is to minimize my chances of failure to start.

I converted it to 12V a couple of years ago. All wiring had been checked/replaced at that time. The starter is strong, fuel not that old and is coming out of the drain plug fine, and battery is not too old. Plugs were replaced a few years ago. Wires checked out at that time. Addressing possible corrosion issues at the points, I bought a distributer gasket kit and tried to seal it up as well as I could, but the fit wasn't that great, so don't know how successuful I was.

Again, runs strong once started and doesn't quit until I shut it off, so I don't see that the advice to fix all of the other problems before converting to IE would apply here. I'd love to have a final solution and have a reliable tractor given my location and challenges.

p.s.
I've seen the debate in general and am not looking to start that again here - https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1119452.
Just trying to find a solution for my circumstances.

This post was edited by timsch on 12/10/2023 at 07:19 am.
Click to expand...

I put EI on my 46 2N with front mount and my buddies 48 8N front mount 3 years ago for the same reasons you mention. They only get run a few times a year. Since installing EI, they have both started every time since without fail. I don't miss fooling with those front mount distributors!
 
(quoted from post at 09:28:44 12/10/23)
I am on the EI side remember they both suffer from the same issues. Resolve those issues before you dive into it life will be good.
Click to expand...

Well, I do admit at this point, I'm looking for a magic bullet. I've done alot to work out the issues and have come a long way with this tractor, but can't get over the hill. I was hoping this would be it. For ~$200, it's probably worth the gamble that it'll be better. Lord knows I flush alot more money down the drain just living today than that if it doesn't help. I'm just stumped by the fact that it'll start relatively OK one moment and then not at all the next.

120V "flush" sounds great, but you're right, that's better left to someone not so prone to learning by mistakes, LOL.

I'll get the spark tester 1st though. Thanks everyone so far.
 
Some thoughts...
Points - of any voltage, that are
periodically maintained by a competent
hand will always make your tractor run.
But a basic tenet of those who advocate EI
is those competent hands do get older and
maybe arthritic. The knees too.
So it's less enjoyable and more
challenging to wipe the points than it was
when I came here.
If you are competent with your points you
can probably do a conversion.
If not, the help is here.
If you do the conversion, you'll likely
not need to open the distributer again.
EI ain't better than points but it excells
in situations like yours.
 
I used to take the car down to the car wash and clean the engine. I got used to pulling the cap and giving it
WD-40 bath. One day I decided to add ignition silicon to the ends of the plug wires including the coil wire.
Going to the car wash after that became boring. No more having the dry out the dist.
YMMV.
 
Purists will disagree, but I'm a huge advocate of EI (assuming the tractor is wired correctly in the first place). There's a reason why automobiles ditched points decades ago. I can tell you from personal experience that I had a very contrary-to-start 8N which didn't like starting on wet days or foggy days. While in the shop for other work, I asked my mechanic and he was very much in favor of EI conversion in general, and I did that 3 years ago with zero regrets.
 
A little different perspective: EFI or Points are both good but I think the issue may be the inherant need of these old N's needing attention and tinkering to keep running well. I am a tinkerer and for that reason I love my 8N51. I would have to say that the Old Ford only starts "perfectly" for about 6 months at a time. It still starts after 6 months but I start to tinker to get it back to "perfect". I usually adjust/clean one thing at a time until it starts "perfectly" again. The fix never seems to be the same thing twice!

JMOR: Touching on the inherant differnces between AC and DC switches. Awesome.
 
(quoted from post at 09:28:44 12/10/23)

One simple tip I will give ya it haunts a lot of tractors because it cannot be see easily and one that I dislike about a updraft carb. Remove the air tube off of the carb are pull it back. Leave the fuel on if it drips overtime its flooding the engine. EI are a well tuned points system struggle to light off a pig rich mixture.

Everyone has spare hoses for the intake tube dontcha life's to short to fiddle with old hard ones cut'em off install new hoses life will be good.
Click to expand...

I'm with Hobo on the flooded carb making hard starts after sitting. Shouldn't happen with good needle/seat, but I've pulled the hose off and had gas come out. The brass frits on the bottom of the carb gets junked up and the fuel won't drain out.

Best practice for me is to shut off the fuel and run the carb dry if the tractor is going to sit.

Misuse of the choke will also cause hard starting and flood the engine. On a cold start let the motor turn a couple times then just use the choke until it pops/starts. Holding the choke closed will flood the engine. Winter time this is a worse problem, probably not so much of a problem on the gulf coast, but I'm in New England.

Tractor sits outside well covered. If it's real cold I've taken to using a hair dryer for ~20 minutes to pre-heat the carb and then it starts up like summer time.
 

I'll check out the flooding issue. I'm aware of it, but not to the particulars that y'all are. In cases like that in the past, where I've choked it and smelled fuel and it wouldn't fire, I assumed it was flooded and left it alone for a while. come back and it'd usually fire up no problem (no choke).

That's why this time I waited overnight and only after it wouldn't start in the morning did I make this post.

Yeah, I'm a tinkerer too. Problem is the number of things I'm juggling is a bit much, so having to come back continually to tinker on equipment that isn't even my primary is wearing thin. Still, I keep it for nostalgia's sake, and I don't want to be without a backup.

Spark tester should be in today. I'll test and post back. Thanks again, everyone
 
Bingo.

The anti-corrosion coatings on contact sets is far from what it once was.

Usually a simple burnishing with an IBM card or piece of brown paper bag will get things going until the next time.
 
I'll most likely switch over to EI. There are a couple of options on the YT site for my 12-volt negative ground 8N with front mount distributer. One Pertronix kit for $280 with 40, 000 volt coil, coil clamp, coil wire and distributor cap, and another for $160 without these items.

How do I determine whether my current parts need replacing for this conversion?
 
(quoted from post at 16:08:49 12/11/23) I'll most likely switch over to EI. There are a couple of options on the YT site for my 12-volt negative ground 8N with front mount distributer. One Pertronix kit for $280 with 40, 000 volt coil, coil clamp, coil wire and distributor cap, and another for $160 without these items.

How do I determine whether my current parts need replacing for this conversion?
Click to expand...
he 280 is EI to replace the square can coil on top of distributor with a standard round can remotely mounted coil. The 160 is straight EI using the standard sq coil mounted on top of distributor.
 
(quoted from post at 14:21:39 12/11/23)
(quoted from post at 16:08:49 12/11/23) I'll most likely switch over to EI. There are a couple of options on the YT site for my 12-volt negative ground 8N with front mount distributer. One Pertronix kit for $280 with 40, 000 volt coil, coil clamp, coil wire and distributor cap, and another for $160 without these items.

How do I determine whether my current parts need replacing for this conversion?
Click to expand...
he 280 is EI to replace the square can coil on top of distributor with a standard round can remotely mounted coil. The 160 is straight EI using the standard sq coil mounted on top of distributor.
Click to expand...

What are people's experiences with either option? Worth the extra $120?
 
(quoted from post at 19:46:28 12/11/23)
(quoted from post at 14:21:39 12/11/23)
(quoted from post at 16:08:49 12/11/23) I'll most likely switch over to EI. There are a couple of options on the YT site for my 12-volt negative ground 8N with front mount distributer. One Pertronix kit for $280 with 40, 000 volt coil, coil clamp, coil wire and distributor cap, and another for $160 without these items.

How do I determine whether my current parts need replacing for this conversion?
Click to expand...
he 280 is EI to replace the square can coil on top of distributor with a standard round can remotely mounted coil. The 160 is straight EI using the standard sq coil mounted on top of distributor.
Click to expand...

What are people's experiences with either option? Worth the extra $120?
Click to expand...
personally had bad luck with the old sq. can coils, so, I gutted one and wired thru the old housing and used round can coil, but that is somewhat difficult. Others have done similar operations. Many possibilities.
S5MlqDZ.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 20:46:28 12/11/23)
(quoted from post at 14:21:39 12/11/23)
(quoted from post at 16:08:49 12/11/23) I'll most likely switch over to EI. There are a couple of options on the YT site for my 12-volt negative ground 8N with front mount distributer. One Pertronix kit for $280 with 40, 000 volt coil, coil clamp, coil wire and distributor cap, and another for $160 without these items.

How do I determine whether my current parts need replacing for this conversion?
Click to expand...
he 280 is EI to replace the square can coil on top of distributor with a standard round can remotely mounted coil. The 160 is straight EI using the standard sq coil mounted on top of distributor.
Click to expand...

What are people's experiences with either option? Worth the extra $120?
Click to expand...

for 209, i'd recommend the 91247.

It will pay for itself the first time you leave the key on.
Click to expand...

he's right. it did. with coil it's 329 at the site i was looking at.
 
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