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Looking for painting advice

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Tom Windsor

05-05-2007 18:37:12




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With the projects that I have done in the past couple of years, I just clean up the sheet metal and the frame, prime and paint it. I have given no detail to the sheet metal preparation other than clean, prime and paint. So, I get out in the real world and start seeing things that people do and I find some "great" sheet metal paint jobs. The one I have going now, I want it to also be "great." So here is where I need advice and schooling.

All of you have seen the rust pits in the sheet metal. I need to know how to cover them up. I looked for some 1/2 inch paint and did not find it :-)

I want to get a good coat of epoxy or etching primer on the bare metal...then, I want to fill the pits before the final paint. There is where I am lost--somewhere between the good primer and the final paint. I need to know exactly how to cover and fill in the rust pit holes in the sheet metal!

TW

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turbos10

05-06-2007 06:34:04




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 Re: Looking for painting advice in reply to Tom Windsor, 05-05-2007 18:37:12  
I have to disagree with using filler on the pits. For sheet metal pits a build primer will be much easier and yeild the same results. You can put 2-3 coats of build primer, block sand untill the pits are gone and then top coat. Use urethane build primer and there will be no need to seal between the top coat.



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CNKS

05-06-2007 13:22:34




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 Re: Looking for painting advice in reply to turbos10, 05-06-2007 06:34:04  
It depends on the pits. I would rather fill them to begin with, then I know they are done, and I don't need more than a couple of spray and sand applications (2 or 3 coats at a time) of surfacer. If you use primer/paint from the same company, in general you do not need to seal the surfacer, at least not PPG. Some people recommend using a dilute version of epoxy over the surfacer as a sealer just under the topcoat. In theory this gives a more durable finish.

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turbos10

05-06-2007 18:45:31




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 Re: Looking for painting advice in reply to CNKS, 05-06-2007 13:22:34  
I do agree that it depends on the pits, but I am assuming on the sheet metal they are pin hole type pits. I actually like OMNI urethane build primer from Car Quest. It is affordable and fills very nicely. For really deep stuff, skim coating filler makes sense.

I have done the expoxy coat and I was not crazy about it. You are not suppose to sand it, but it was so smooth and hard that I scuffed with 400 before top coat. I just did not feel comfortable shooting without scuffing.

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CNKS

05-06-2007 19:53:11




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 Re: Looking for painting advice in reply to turbos10, 05-06-2007 18:45:31  
PPG Omni MP 170 has a 3 day window (at 70 degrees) before it needs to be scuffed. Then you have to reapply before you topcoat it. That means that during the 3 day period you get a chemical bond to whatever you put over it, which is better than the mechanical bond you get with sanding. Known as "wet on wet". The epoxy is waterproof and most minor chips will only go down to the epoxy, not the bare metal. As long as you didn't expose bare metal when you scuffed it you are ok -- but it is not necessary. I have seen some pretty rough sheet metal that would take multiple coats of surfacer to cover, in that case, although body filler is hard to sand, it is less work.

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gauger

05-06-2007 06:27:53




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 Re: Looking for painting advice in reply to Tom Windsor, 05-05-2007 18:37:12  
The body filler (seems like noone wants to say Bondo)instructions say to use on bare metal. I've used it over primer and on bare metal with similar results. Works great for filling pits. Bondo nowdays is not the same stuff I used in high school (1960's), IT LASTS IF DONE RIGHT.



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Duner Wi

05-05-2007 19:28:50




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 Re: Looking for painting advice in reply to Tom Windsor, 05-05-2007 18:37:12  
You can learn lots at this site. autobodystore.com
Read the forums.



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old

05-05-2007 19:08:32




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 Re: Looking for painting advice in reply to Tom Windsor, 05-05-2007 18:37:12  
Think of it this way. Back when the old tractors where made they used dip painting a lot. With what we have now days for paint you can do a far better job then they could way back when. It all depends on how much you want to do as to how good a job you can get.



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GeneMO

05-05-2007 20:50:03




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 Re: Looking for painting advice in reply to old, 05-05-2007 19:08:32  
The restored tractors, on display, at most shows, look 10 times better than how they came from the factory. I guess it all depends on each persons passion on how they want a tractor to look. If you want it to loook "Original" dont get too picky.


Gene



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GeneMO

05-05-2007 20:49:55




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 Re: Looking for painting advice in reply to old, 05-05-2007 19:08:32  
The restored tractors, on display, at most shows, look 10 times better than how they came from the factory. I guess it all depends on each persons passion on how they want a tractor to look. If you want it to loook "Original" dont get too picky.


Gene



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old

05-05-2007 21:03:16




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 Re: Looking for painting advice in reply to GeneMO, 05-05-2007 20:49:55  
Yep the old style dip painting would leave a few runs but shoot it was a tractor so they didn't worry about it because it would take a lot of trees abd brush over the years plus most tractor sat out side day in day out



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PaulW_NJ

05-05-2007 19:00:23




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 Re: Looking for painting advice in reply to Tom Windsor, 05-05-2007 18:37:12  
Tom

There is a great deal of excellent material on the Painting and Bodywork forum of this same site. I"ve used such procedures on pitted metal and it has worked extremely well. Here"s one example.

An important element of dealing with pitted metal is to eliminate rust inside the pits. Otherwise corrosion will continue under the new surface you apply. If you are not sandblasting or using electrolysis, at least treat the sanded sheetmetal with a phosphoric acid based rust converter such as Picklex or Must for Rust. Epoxy primer followed by body glaze or body putty followed by primer surfacer will eleminate those pits completely so when you topcoat you will achieve a smooth surface.

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CNKS

05-05-2007 18:52:11




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 Re: Looking for painting advice in reply to Tom Windsor, 05-05-2007 18:37:12  
First of all, you do not need etch primer--because you are going to sand the sheet metal. Etch primer is for body shops using new sheet metal that they don't want to sand. For pits you need a two-part body filler type product-- there are many. You then sand it all off except what is left in the pits. If you sand too hard you will sand it out of the pits. Then use a two-part EPOXY primer, not etch. Cover that with a sandable surfacer or primer surfacer. Do not put the primer surfacer over the bare metal, it will not adhere nearly as well as epoxy. As you use the body filler on the pits, you can also use it to fill any small (1/8 in or less, I try to smooth it to 1/16 inch) depressions (dents). In the body filler used in the dents you may see some pinholes, those can be filled with glazing putty. The surfacer can be sanded, and reapplied until you are satisfied, but don't pile it on too thick. Some people recommend priming with epoxy before filling the pits. I don't know the advantage of that, as I prefer to put it on bare metal. Use 180 grit sandpaper before the epoxy. Do not sand the epoxy, but sand the surfacer with 400 grit before topcoating.

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City-Boy McCoy

05-06-2007 05:44:16




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 Re: Looking for painting advice in reply to CNKS, 05-05-2007 18:52:11  
Tom:
I agree with CNKS, except, I DO believe in using the epoxy primer on the bare metal before I use the filler. Filler is porous and if any moisture gets into it, it will go right to the bare metal, unless it is sealed with the epoxy primer. But, each person has their own favorite method and more than one works well, I'm sure. It goes without saying: Wear a good respirator when using epoxy primers and paints. mike

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Tom Windsor

05-05-2007 19:38:01




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 Re: Looking for painting advice in reply to CNKS, 05-05-2007 18:52:11  
I am going to follow your directions.

Thanks.



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