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706 looses power on long pulls

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cjd12000

05-11-2007 03:55:48




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I recently bought a 706 gas of the photo ads here and when climbing long hill nothing attached or pulling disc it cuts out and starts backfiring through carb. I checked and adjusted the valves, rebuilt the carb, checked fuel flow and checked the timing. They are all good now but once it gets up to temp it doesnt want to pull. Very frustrated as I have only had it a week and have spent many hours working on it. It has electronic ignition and apears recent. Any suggestions would be appreciated

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cjd12000

05-14-2007 03:43:46




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 Re: 706 looses power on long pulls in reply to cjd12000, 05-11-2007 03:55:48  
Well I switched the plugs from d21y to d15y and that seemed to do the trick. It pulled the hill smooth twice this weekend. Thanks for all the input.



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wolfman

05-11-2007 18:29:56




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 Re: 706 looses power on long pulls in reply to cjd12000, 05-11-2007 03:55:48  
Don't overlook the obvious. Put a compression guage in each spark plug hole. These engines are so smooth running that they will still sound ok til they're so ready for an overhaul that they will cough & put your nose into the steering wheel.



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ET

05-11-2007 11:17:58




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 Re: 706 looses power on long pulls in reply to cjd12000, 05-11-2007 03:55:48  
A bad coil will break down on a long slow pull and can fool you by the way it makes an engine buck and snort. Is it worse after the engine warms up? Make sure you have copper core wires not resistor wires.



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MN Scott

05-11-2007 10:33:58




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 Re: 706 looses power on long pulls in reply to cjd12000, 05-11-2007 03:55:48  
Spark plugs are to hot guaranteed. Had the same problem with my 706 several years ago when the state forced ethonol on us. Put in a set of champion D15Y or brand of your choice in the same heat range. Also follow the tractor vet's recommendations to the letter. 93 octane, correct timing, low ash oil. One more recommendation, if your going to do a fair amount of heavy field work invest in a diesel. A diesel will stand hard work, a gasser makes a good light work chore tractor. Just my opinion.

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Thack

05-11-2007 10:09:11




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 Re: 706 looses power on long pulls in reply to cjd12000, 05-11-2007 03:55:48  
Since it does it while climbing a hill that would be during acceleration. If carb is improperly adjusted that will cause the air/fuel mix to burn slowly and combustion is still taking place during the exhaust stroke, and even when the intake valve opens.

The flame front can then travel up the intake and cause a backfire which means you are running lean or as some of the others pointed out you have an obstruction or...it's bad spark timing.

Since you did all the work you mentioned I would look at the ignition. It does it after it warms up. What do the plugs look like?

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MLD

05-11-2007 09:38:18




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 Re: 706 looses power on long pulls in reply to cjd12000, 05-11-2007 03:55:48  
It sounds like a timing issue to me if its backfiring.



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Owen Aaland

05-11-2007 09:25:12




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 Re: 706 looses power on long pulls in reply to cjd12000, 05-11-2007 03:55:48  
I would check the spark plugs to make sure they are not too hot a heat range for what you are using the tractor. If it was not used under much load before it may well have hotter plugs to keep them from fouling. As the plugs heat up under load a hotter plug will not transfer the heat fast enough and the overheated plug can cause preignition, even to the point where the fuel mixture is ignited as it is being drawn into the cylinders. This will cause backfiring into the carburetor.

A Champion D21 can be used for engines under light load. Champion D18Y has become the new standard. Champion D15Y was the originally suggested plug. If you are loading the tractor enough you can get by using the D15Y plugs. Better to be too cold rather than too hot. If you start with a colder plug you can move to the next hotter if you have fouling problems. Be sure to go back to colder plugs for heavier use.

My Super C running a Woods 6 foot mower runs just fine with D15Y because it is usually under enough load to keep the plugs clean. On the other hand, my I2444 has D21s in it becuase it is used almost exclusively for loader work and D18Ys would sometimes foul out. Both engines have had recent overhauls and neither uses any oil but different loading requires different heat ranges on the spark plugs.

Preignition can occur just a few degrees before normal spark ignition and you may not be aware of it happening but it will cause the pistons to run much hotter and will lead to piston failure. Higher octane fuels can mask this problem by being less prone to preignition but it is better to run colder plugs to eliminate the source of the problems.

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the tractor vet

05-11-2007 10:19:58




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 Re: 706 looses power on long pulls in reply to Owen Aaland, 05-11-2007 09:25:12  
Owen best read the book on the 706's as per fuel requirements as to min. Octain . Ya have to remember that when they were new the fuel was a whole bunch differant and BY THE BOOK LOWEST FUEL REQUIRMENT IS 93 , Normal reg gas from back in there day was usualy 95 . The engine timing as to the total advance on these engines is of the upmost importants . myself i gave up on the champions many moons ago . I have run 706 gassers since 83 and still running them all of my close friends have 706 gassers that get the bag run off them and the only problem we have had is with the fuel . Last spring the fuel supplier hired a new guy and he brought out a load of 87 octain by mistake and we ate a piston while grinding feed , before that it was just after overhaul when the old supplier brought out 87 and it ate all 6 pistons while plowen . If you like cChampions thats fine with me but like i said i know the 706 inside and out and i know what makes them run and stay running. Maken sure that the dist. is doing what it is suppose to be doing when it is suppose to do it the propper fuel in the tank on a half decent engine they will run a long time and do what they were designed to do .Also you have to take into account that over the years that head has been milled and everytime you take off a couple here and couple there the compression goes up plus the fact that they are a higher turning engine .

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chadd

05-11-2007 11:54:26




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 Re: 706 looses power on long pulls in reply to the tractor vet, 05-11-2007 10:19:58  
Correct me if I am wrong, but by adjusting the fuel octane, aren't you actually adjusting the ignition timing? Higher octane fuel ignites slower than low octane fuel. So when you run low octane fuel, you are pre-igniting and detonating in the engine, causing it to send shockwaves throughout the cylinder and burn hotter in the combustion chamber and expanding pistons and scuffing cylinders. By retarding the ignition timing from IH specs, wouldn't you be accomplishing the same thing? I am not questioning what tractor vet said, as he does know these engines backward and forward, I am just asking the question to see if there is another option.

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the tractor vet

05-11-2007 12:51:26




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 Re: 706 looses power on long pulls in reply to chadd, 05-11-2007 11:54:26  
By backing off the timing she will run even hotter and cause plug fouling ,Ther is a vary fine line in the sand here on the C263 if it is stock your curb timing at idel is wright around TDc and running at full throttel the advace is around 23-24 , not much total advance here on the C291 you are at around 19 degrees BTDC and this new and IMPROVED gas MADE FOR CARS that realy do not work so to speak and running around and 8 compression ratio it is fine but not on a engine that is working hard . like i said many times before gas was a bunch different back before 1973 . Now showen my age here back when BIG TRCUKS still used gas engines they were in the 8to 1 compression ratio and they still had to run the OLD hightest and it was 105 or better at the pumps . And if ya wanted to be cheap back then when there was only 3 cents a gallon between the two that 3 cents ment that you would not make it far as it would wipe out the engine . I have played with cars trcuks and equipment since the 60's between drag racen to tractor pullen played with big trucks to the point of we found the weakness in the drive lines . Worked around many engeneers back during my days of drag racen when ya did not go to the big box store and buy your parts ya made them yourself or had them made . Since i bouht the first 706 like always i have worked tryen to get that last littel bit out of them and have made my far share of spare parts and when something happens i can look at the parts and tell ya as to why it happened . That is like this fuel thing on the 87 octain and we spent the BIG bucks to have a Lab test the fuel and from this EGG HEAD that did the testing and our long talk about this as to why ya can't use the socalled reg. of today and by ReaDING THE OWNERS MANUAL and it clearly states NOTHING LESS then 93 and go back to the 560 with the C263 here it states nothing laess then 89 , now her is the stumbeling block when ya do and over haul today on a 560 C263 you are now installing 706 C263 pistons in her so here again ya got to up the fuel . Way back when working with Ford at one point in time we were having a big problem with the 67 FE 360-390 engines as tooil burning and Ford came out with there test and it was to back up the ing. timing 5 degrees and drive the vehical for a half hour , now if ya want to see and engine get hot that is the way to do it . Along with backing up ing. timing ya make for harder starts and lots of accelaration stumbel . Now when i still had my COUGH choke Massey 300 combine with the go old trusty 225 slant six i was having a real problem with high engine temps , so i had to find out WHY i did everything from cleaning and boiling the rad. to speeded up the fan nothing helped when worken she would get real close to 250 . One day i was going out to the land of the Hoosier to a sale and they had gas at a price we could only wish for today as .689 a gallon for high test and back here it was .949 for hightest as that is what i ran in my f350 460 powered one ton and they had real FARM GAS at this station that had the GOOD old fashioned LEAD in it andit was now get this 95 octain where as there hightest car gas was 93 and the FARM GAS was at a price of 54.9 a gallon. Now i was just getting ready to run corn and i thought to myself here is a way to cut some cost out of the picture buy gas out here in Hoosier land . Oh wait how am i going to get it from out there to back here ????? I'll try and buy a couple 100 gallon fuel tanks . That is what i did i bought two 110 fuel tanks with pumps at the sale for 50 or 60 bucks and filled them on the way home . When i put that gas in the old massey the engine temp dropped down to 185-195 and stayed there . It was the reg. gas that i was tryen to run.

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the tractor vet

05-11-2007 06:33:09




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 Re: 706 looses power on long pulls in reply to cjd12000, 05-11-2007 03:55:48  
Ok here the scoope , (1) are you running HIGH TEST GAS???? (2) check the total advance of the timing , now here ya have to know if it is a C263 A C291 or what or is a C263 changed over to a C291 or did some one stuff a combine engine in it . The 706 is to be run on nothing LESS then 93 OCTAIN gas and if ya are running it on cheap 87 she will swell pistons and vary easlie seeze the engine . Also using low ash oil is a must on these tractors or ya will eat valves out of them . I have been down this road many times with these tractors and i do know what i am talken about .

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todd hamilton

05-11-2007 16:01:56




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 Re: 706 looses power on long pulls in reply to the tractor vet, 05-11-2007 06:33:09  
Hi - I usually post on the Case board but jump over here once in awhile. As the previous owner of a '69 Ford 351 in a Cougar convertible and one who has a lot of time as a teen-ager on two different 706s (one owned by a tractor mechanic)I got to support the tractor vet all the way on this fuel issue. My family has always farmed with IH so I have been around them since I could walk. The 06 series tractors were really the first "high performance/high rpm" tractors introduced by IH. My uncle bought a new '64 706 and the theory of high RPM is correct - more power for pulling and it made a great corn picker tractor as it kept the speed up on the snap rollers. The downfall is higher maintenance, especially if fuel and other specs not followed. I believe the PTO RPM on a 706 is around 2150 compared to the 656 at about 1850. In later series IH tractors the power curve is more refined but one needs to be cautious with the any of the 06 series, diesel or gas. They are great tractors, the 706 remains one of my favorites, but you have to use the right fuels and lubes and drive them properly.

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cjd12000

05-11-2007 05:39:22




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 Re: 706 looses power on long pulls in reply to cjd12000, 05-11-2007 03:55:48  
pretty sure it is not fuel related. spent many hours ensuring strong stream to carb. Also installed new componets in carb because thought maybe needle was sticking



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El Toro

05-11-2007 04:17:36




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 Re: 706 looses power on long pulls in reply to cjd12000, 05-11-2007 03:55:48  
There may be a problem with the electronic ignition. If it's Pertronic's ignition I would call them at 1-800-827-3758. It could be heat related and something could be failing. When it
starts with this power loss pull one of plug wire's off and see what the fire looks like. Hold it near the sparkplug. Hal



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Allan In NE

05-11-2007 04:10:08




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 Re: 706 looses power on long pulls in reply to cjd12000, 05-11-2007 03:55:48  
Sure sounds like you're not getting fuel.

Have you completely removed the sediment bowl assembly and checked for restriction?

My tractor was doing the same darned thing and it ended up being a fly in the upper stand-pipe.

Also, if you have any kind of filter on that fuel line, it just can't stand much blockage at all.

Allan



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