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Cracked Block on A/B/C etc. Farmalls?

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01-24-2004 14:24:10

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I have a chance to purchase a Farmall Super A with a cracked block. It is cracked behind the carb and presumed to be a freeze crack. It appears to have happened long ago, the seller has just found it�it had been �repaired� with JB weld or something similar and it had come loose.

The tractor runs good, is straight, good compression, no smoke, and no mixing of water and oil. I have heard of Farmalls cracking here before. (We have a 230 that was like this and we just replaced the block. I would prefer not to have to do this. When this happens, are they prone to having other cracks internally? (I know it�s a wet sleeve) In other words, is this a timebomb?

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Daave

01-25-2004 12:18:50

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Re: Cracked Block on A/B/C etc. Farmalls? in reply to Al, 01-24-2004 14:24:10

I'm redoing a Super A. Had a cracked block, inside thw water jacket up to head the top of the block mates with the head, Had water in the oil. I purchased a Short block from Value Built Paid around $1100.00 for it. If yu buy it, the price better be good, plan on needing the block....

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pcy

01-24-2004 20:00:17

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Re: Cracked Block on A/B/C etc. Farmalls? in reply to Al, 01-24-2004 14:24:10

i have owened at least 25 c and sc tractors over the last 15 years , and at least 10 of them have had cracked blocks, 2 years ago i sold my c that i used to cultivate tobacco with and needed one to use, long story short, i bought a sc with water shooting out the exhaust, i took the head off, the gasket was blown, block cracked no2 and 3 out the side down the middle, i took a caulking gun with red silicone and filled the crack used 1/4 tube or better put old head gasket back on,went to walmart and got 2 bottles of liquid glass sealent poured in rads, hoped to use to cultivate 5 acres of tobacco, its still running no problems its used to cutivate 5 acres of tob, and 3 acres sweetcorn about 4 times over every year

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gene b

01-24-2004 17:50:17

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Re: Cracked Block on A/B/C etc. Farmalls? in reply to Al, 01-24-2004 14:24:10

I have two mower tractors both Bs and they both have the famous crack behind the carb. I ground the surface down so toget rid of rust ect then applied a good coating of a good rubber cement the one has been running two yrs and the other one three with no problems and do not expect any. Would be worth a try can always change blocks later.

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james

01-24-2004 17:08:58

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Re: Cracked Block on A/B/C etc. Farmalls? in reply to Al, 01-24-2004 14:24:10

I wouldn't worry so much about internal cracks if there is not water in the oil or oil in the water. You could have the block welded and go on if your not worried about what it looks like. But you might see if the seller might come off of the price some. It wont hurt to ask. James

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Bob W

01-24-2004 16:11:31

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Re: Cracked Block on A/B/C etc. Farmalls? in reply to Al, 01-24-2004 14:24:10

My dad has a super a that i hope to restore in time.This may be a dumb question but are new blocks available if one is cracked? Im not sure about my dads but after all i have read here it could be so. i once brazed a cast iron block that a rod when through on a kohler cub cadet. it worked so far to keep the oil in. if course i understand that if the crack is in a strategic place that wouldnt be possible.. thanks for your help.

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SGT K

01-24-2004 17:11:39

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Re: Re: Cracked Block on A/B/C etc. Farmalls? in reply to Bob W, 01-24-2004 16:11:31

I brazed a block once on a 1466 that I bought after it froze. WHAT A NIGHTMARE!! The crack finally stopped when each end got to a freeze plug. I learned later (the hard way, as ussual) that they pre-heat the block first and its really not a shade tree/SGT K kind of job. I still use this tractor, but I always have my fingers crossed.

Unless I was planning to replace the block, or bought it real cheap, I would staty away from it. My two cents.

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Hugh MacKay

01-24-2004 15:37:37

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Re: Cracked Block on A/B/C etc. Farmalls? in reply to Al, 01-24-2004 14:24:10

Al: I don't know what it is about A, SA, etc. You seem to find more broken blocks in those tractors than any other tractor. I think those tractors got into the hands people that never tested anti freeze in their life. The local service center looked after the family car and/or pickup come fall, chain saw and lawn mower didn't need it so every thing was fine. I never could figure the mentality on that one. I am willing to bet frozen, broken blocks took more offset Farmalls to the scrapyard than any other single cause.

No they are not prone to breaking. I currently have three of these tractors, owned three others in my life time, I never had a problem. I could never understand this, a $1.98 anti freeze tester would have saved every one of them. It really doesn't take very smart person to operate one of these testers. One needs to be even less smart to realize that fall brings on cold weather.

I'm like you, I would never want a repaired block, you just never know how deep those cracks were. I would always be wondering when it was going to start leaking again. And they do start leaking again. I know guys that have repaired them several times. I personally wouldn't fool with it.

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Haas

01-24-2004 18:34:55

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Re: Re: Cracked Block on A/B/C etc. Farmalls? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 01-24-2004 15:37:37

Hugh, the reason I think so many of these tractors have the cracked blocks is that long ago alcohol based antifreeze was used. I know my dad used it back in the 50s and we ended up with a cracked block on the Super A. It was welded and the last I knew of that tractor which was 30 years ago, it was still running. Because these are not pressurized cooling systems and the alcohol boils lower than water, the alcohol distilled out over time and had to be constantly replenished. Also, I don't think antifreeze testers were very common back in the 50s. I saw them at service stations, but I don't recall us ever having one on the farm. As I recall, after that cracked block, we always used glycol base antifreeze.

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Hugh MacKay

01-24-2004 19:07:27

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Re: Re: Re: Cracked Block on A/B/C etc. Farmalls? in reply to Haas, 01-24-2004 18:34:55

Paul: Yes I well remember the old testers with the long glass tube. My grandfather had one on the farm. In our area it seemed as thought a lot of this happened after the original owners traded them off, and they were sold to householders for yard work, part timers, etc. I remember hearing of a lot of cracked blocks, in the smaller Farmalls during the 60s and 70s

May be we were just lucky, we had a W4, Cub, H, 300, 130 and 560D in that order. I think those were all presurized, not sure on W4 and Cub, I do remember my dad draining them, when it was cold so I don't think he even ran anti freeze in those two.

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Tony

01-24-2004 16:24:54

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Re: Re: Cracked Block on A/B/C etc. Farmalls? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 01-24-2004 15:37:37

My dad was one of those guys that didn't use the super C enough after august hat every year from 1975 to 1985 that tractor would freeze up and push the frost plug out between the engine and transmission. Finally at the age of 15 I went out and bought the antifreeze for it so that when he forgot to drain the system I didn't have to split the tractor and put that frost plug back in. I still use thatr tractor every day and I must be very lucky because even though my ol' man was set in his ways, it never hurt the block of that tractor after freezing up ten times in a row.

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Hugh MacKay

01-24-2004 17:27:22

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Re: Re: Re: Cracked Block on A/B/C etc. Farmalls? in reply to Tony, 01-24-2004 16:24:54

Tony: You must be far enough south that it just became a stiff slush rather than solid ice. This is not the first time I have heard of someone being that lucky. But ten times in a row, that's real luck.

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lee

01-24-2004 15:12:52

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Re: Cracked Block on A/B/C etc. Farmalls? in reply to Al, 01-24-2004 14:24:10

Which way is it running, horizontal or vertical?
How long is it? Is it directly behind the carb? Critical areas internal to the block about midway betweel the oil pan gasket surface and the head gasket surface are the O-ring grooves that seal the bottoms of the sleeves. These O-rings seal oil from getting in the coolant and coolant from getting in the oil. This crack if in the right place could pass thru an o-ring groove and then you may have a problem. It may not pass thru either, depending on where it is. It may or may not be a problem but I would evaluate it closely before I bought it. Casting cracks can grow over time, but they may not grow either. They can have a mind of their own. You can get a better idea of it's location relative to the o-ring grooves if you have access to a used block or if you can get a look at scaled section drawings showing the front and side sections of the engine assembly. If it is a short horizontal crack and above the o-ring grooves it may not be a problem other than keeping JB weld in place. Check the oil and coolant closely for coolant in oil or opposite.
You will likely want to drain the systems to check. Oil floats on water so any coolant in the oil would be at the bottom of the pan. You could pressurize the radiator slightly as another test to see if coolant is transfering to the oil.

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01-25-2004 06:59:37

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Re: Re: Cracked Block on A/B/C etc. Farmalls? in reply to lee, 01-24-2004 15:12:52

The crack is horizontal, midway up the block. Here is a pic of it after running for an hour.

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lee

01-25-2004 08:25:45

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Re: Re: Re: Cracked Block on A/B/C etc. Farmalls? in reply to Al, 01-25-2004 06:59:37

How far does it run forward behind the carb where we can't see in the pic? From where it starts on the left of the pic it appears to be continuous til it disappears behind the carb. This crack is quite long but looks like a repairable crack. I cannot tell you it is not in the groove area but
is likely above it and maybe someone here has a block they can make a stab at a better evaluation. If anyone offers to help they will need to know it's location below the head surface or above the pan. If this crack is growing over time it can be drilled at the ends with say a 1/8 drill thru to the water jacket to stop the growth. To just check it for growth you will have to mark the ends with a scribe or punch and check it over time. To seal it, you could grind it concave very slighty, say .75 wide over it's length with a course finish. There is a product I think called pig putty which is an industrial strength epoxy repair putty. You could fill and smooth over. There are also crack repair fasteners used to "stitch" a crack together to provide a mechanical repair. People in the casting repair business (ie automotive cylinder head repair) might be able to help. You could also try a automotive coolant system sealer you pour in the radiator. Is this a special machine to you or are there other machines available in your area without cracks.
This will always be a detractor for this machine even if it does not pose a significant problem.
Buyers will be shy of it. Make sure you buy it right with this in mind.

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