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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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IH 656 Diesel (Hydro)

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RTD

03-22-2004 17:21:30




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I'm thinking of buying a IH 656 Diesel Hydro, but a dealer told me I'm nuts, they are extreamly hard starting, even in the warmest of days, with the glow plugs all working good. He said that on a cold day, even with a block heater, I would be lucky if I could get it started. I know there were more than one diesel engine that was used in that model, and I'm wondering if one motor was worse than the others? The motor I'm talking about has the the "Rusa-master" injection pump on the right side of the motor (when your sitting in the seat) and the injectors, and glow plugs are visible from the right side of the tractor. Thanks, any information would be helpfull....

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elroy

03-29-2004 14:31:02




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 Re: IH 656 Diesel (Hydro) in reply to RTD, 03-22-2004 17:21:30  
they dont strat that hard we have one it strat every day of the year and it sits out side



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Tim Malin

03-24-2004 12:42:54




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 Re: IH 656 Diesel (Hydro) in reply to RTD, 03-22-2004 17:21:30  
The way I see it, I have a neighbor with two 1026 hydros. Bought one, loved it so much bought another. Bought one with a bad hydro, fixed it and is very happy. For what you are going to use it for, TMR, I don't think you could get a better transmission than a hydro. As for the model, I don't have a guess. I am a huge 826 fan, but I don't think there is actually an underpowered hydro. I would go ahead and carefully select and buy a hydro of your choice, and then if you have problems with one you can either fix it or buy another hydro. I would buy and sell a hydro every month until I find one that worked. There are many out there. I think that 282 will work good for you, and I support your wishes to buy a 656 hydro. Go ahead.

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Hoppy

03-23-2004 05:40:17




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 Re: IH 656 Diesel (Hydro) in reply to RTD, 03-22-2004 17:21:30  
I have a 656 Diesel Hydro also. I have to agree with Hugh. If you follow the manual it will start. Your finger may get alittle tired on the glow plug button but it's a great engine. I also have mine wired for two 12 volts in parallel. Mine happens to be for sale right now but not because of starting. I bought this for tractor rides pulling a gooseneck trailer made up like a covered wagon. We need to run about 12 miles an hour and that speed is just between the work and transport range. If it had an intermediate range you couldn't buy this tractor from me. Great hay or loader tractor. Starting was much improved after I read the manual.

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Aces

03-23-2004 05:27:28




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 Re: IH 656 Diesel (Hydro) in reply to RTD, 03-22-2004 17:21:30  
RTD The problem wlth the 282D is that people refuse to believe that the engine was made to start useing the glow plugs. The are a precombustion chamber engine and they need the glow plug to start period. It is like tring to start a gas with the switch off mast don't start that way. The 282D is not that hard to start, I was around many 460 560 656 706 D's if you do it right they start ok any desiel needs good compression or it will not start. Would I use a heater in the winter sey on any tractor I was going to use every day.

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Superman

03-23-2004 04:59:02




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 Re: IH 656 Diesel (Hydro) in reply to RTD, 03-22-2004 17:21:30  
RTD: Diesels require management and maintenance in order to use them in cold weather. Here is how I start my Farmall 656 as well as diesel cars in the cold winters of Eastern Ontario: 1.) Buy and install good batteries, I use Delco. In the 656 use 2 twelve volt batteries in parallel. Use good cables which can be a size smaller than stock. Clean terminals etc. Batteries can be grounded separately but the hot sides must both go to starter.

2.) Use straight number one fuel. This fuel is called "stove oil" here and costs slightly more than normal Winter diesel fuel which is a 50/50 mix of number one and number two fuels. In summer you can use number two. Treat every tank of fuel with good quality diesel fuel conditioner.

3.) Make sure the starter, generator and glow plugs are in top condition.

4.) Change to zero w 30 oil (yes, zero w 30) when temperature stays constantly below freezing. As far as I know thi oil is only sold here by Imperial Oil (Esso). Change back to normal oil in spring.
5.) Install a battery warmer around every battery and of course install a block heater. I like frost plug heaters for safety ( if for some reason
the coolant leaks out the tractor and shed don't
burn down.
6.) Keep the tractor inside a shed or at least under cover. Plug in the heaters if temperature is expected to get cold. Keep a good quality electric "charger booster" handy just in case. I am a diesel fan and I believe the future will
see a lot more diesels on the roads in cars and light trucks. This is what is happening in Europe in response to high fuel costs. We have colder weather here than most of Europe and will have to do what I have outlined above.Thanks and good luck.

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TP from Central PA

03-23-2004 03:44:18




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 Re: IH 656 Diesel (Hydro) in reply to RTD, 03-22-2004 17:21:30  
I'd buy it if the price was right..... ....Great haying, loading, and chore tractor! They are incrediably hard to start though, if you don't have a big tank heater on them, it still starts hard plugged in.

We have a 706 with a D282, this past winter if you really needed it, you plugged it in 8 hrs. before you drove it out of the shed..... ..... ..And it still didn't want to start.

But, those 282D's are good on fuel!

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Hugh MacKay

03-23-2004 05:20:01




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 Re: Re: IH 656 Diesel (Hydro) in reply to TP from Central PA, 03-23-2004 03:44:18  
TP: I don't know what your using for a block heater, but it should do better than 8 hours. The 282 is an ideal engine for installing a circulating heater. Just anchor it about 6" behind the injection pump and slightly above line of pump. Hook the block drain to the return side of heater and hook the heater discharge into one of the ports on the head. Do not have any loops in the hoses. My heaters were 1500 watt and at -20F if you pluged tractor in about 2 hours before use it was much like a summer time start. I had 3 of these units, one each on 560 and 656 and 3rd on a 6 cylinder Deere. They were a whole lot better set up than what came from factory in 1066.

My tractors were not used daily in the winter, so it was not practical to keep them pluged in. My livestock feeding and manure handling was all done by skidsteers. The Deere being a forestry skidder did run most days all winter. If I wanted to use 1066 it had to be pluged in the night before as it had a low watt heater. The 656 and 560 two hours at the most even if they hadn't been started in two weeks. Most tractors up here were not sold with standard IH factory run batteries. We knew what climate we were dealing with and acted accordingly. We also went diesel on mass long before you guys. I have only ever seen one 6 cylinder gas Farmall in my life and that was a 460. We always paid in common dollars 40% more for fuel than you guys, thus we very quickly became quite comfortable with diesels.

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TP from Central PA

03-23-2004 06:57:15




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 Re: Re: Re: IH 656 Diesel (Hydro) in reply to Hugh MacKay, 03-23-2004 05:20:01  
No, it is a smaller tank heater..... ..... .The wiring at our one farm where we keep it isn't saft for a large one. The temp. was around zero to ten above..... .....So it takes a good 8 hours for it to heat up.



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Hugh MacKay

03-22-2004 23:04:43




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 Re: IH 656 Diesel (Hydro) in reply to RTD, 03-22-2004 17:21:30  
RTD: The guys are right but for all the wrong reasons. There is nothing wrong with any of the diesels used in these. Problem was the people that used them. Rather than read the manual, they got it in their head you shouldn't need to use glow plugs for more than 1/2 minute.

I bought two 282 diesels new in the 1960s, a 560 and a 656. I farmed in Canada and sub zero temps were the norm all winter. Yes they had to be pluged in with a circulating block heater. And yes you often had to use the glow plugs 3 to 4 minutes in cold weather, and always a minute in summer. They were not pluged in during summer however. You guys must remember these were the IH pioneers of direct start diesels. I put a total of 25,000 hours on my two tractors, and yes they had two 6 volt batteries in series that weighed about 65 lbs each and had battery cables the size of your thumb. These were truly the most efficient horse power I ever farmed with.

Now the reason you shouldn't buy the tractor is that bloody old HYDRO. Unless you have precission vegetable seeding and harvesting they are just a waste of money. That my friend is what they were designed for. Baling hay and haybine are not precission work. Many many times I have baled 4,000 to 5,000 bales per day with thrower and pulling wagon, and I have done that with each of 300, 560 and 656 gear drives. In fact the 300 still holds the record on my farm for baling production. My 656 with TA and 9' haybine would put down enough hay to keep round baler or 1066 on NH 890 forage harvester going, and that is a lot of hay. I have seen that 1066 with NH 890 fill a 24x70 tower silo in 24 hours, and the 656 mowed it all.

Those old hydros by now will be absolutely nothing but grief for you. The main reason a lot of them still look half decent is no one could ever afford to use them very much. I'm just trying to save you some headaches.

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RTD

03-23-2004 05:57:42




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 Re: Re: IH 656 Diesel (Hydro) in reply to Hugh MacKay, 03-22-2004 23:04:43  
I'm looking to put it on my TMR mixing waggon. I've got a IH 400 (gas) on there now, and she's eating me out of house and home, and keeping OPEC very happy!!! I liked the idea of the hydro, because of all the foward and reverse work that you do running a mixing waggon. The idea of ground speed control, and keeping the engine / PTO running at rated speed, that also is very appealing to me. My IH 400 that I have on there now, is just a touch underpowered for it's job, and I'm thinking that the IH 656 would give me a bit more HP to do the job. It sounds like to me if I can deal with, and put up with the hard starting engine, this still might be a good tractor for me and my application. Thanks so much for all the insight you folks have given me, this is all so helpful !!!

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Hugh MacKay

03-25-2004 05:28:34




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 Re: Re: Re: IH 656 Diesel (Hydro) in reply to RTD, 03-23-2004 05:57:42  
RTD: No question the hydro will work well on the mixer wagon. Between 1965 and 1975 I must have looked at these hydros a dozen times and each time I walked away. My 656D gear drive was bought new for $4,200. in 1967. In 1972 I was at the IH dealers and they had a hydro in for hydro repairs and the bill was very close to what my tractor cost new. So when I bought my power shift Deere in 1975, once again it was easy to walk away from the IH hydro.Keeping CaseIH happy will not be anymore pleasant than OPEC.

On the starting issue those circulating heaters need to work much like the thermosyphon in a SA. It must be mounted in such a way that you get unobstructed flow from the engine block drain up through the heater with the discharge going into one of the ports on the engine head. I used 1500 watt heaters as I did not use those tractors most days in winter. I would suggest on your use and keeping it pluged in all the time 500 watt probably sufficient. The heaters I had used thermostats.

You will also find that 282 diesel very fuel efficient. The later 666, 686, Hydros 70 and 86 started a bit better, had a bit more power, but fuel economy suffered. My 656D would on 9' haybine or baler with thrower, run on 1 Canadian gal per hour. 282 was absolutely the most fuel efficient hp I ever had on the farm. And both of them went over 10,000 hours before any major rebuilds.

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Dan

03-22-2004 19:22:33




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 Re: IH 656 Diesel (Hydro) in reply to RTD, 03-22-2004 17:21:30  
My neighbor has a 656 Diesel, not hydro. It is economical and powerful but is hard starting. You have to hold the glow plugs for a long time, when cold you may then not have enough battery for starting. Another friend said the same thing about them. As mentioned the later series dod mpt have glow plugs.



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He is right

03-22-2004 18:41:23




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 Re: IH 656 Diesel (Hydro) in reply to RTD, 03-22-2004 17:21:30  
it has the D282 is is like starting a rock. I have a 560 Diesel and it can be towed to pull it if it is really cold. If I was you and wanted and needed a hydro get a 666 Hydro or a hydro 70 or hydro 86 as they have the D312 IHC engine that is a baby 414 series engine that "will start" pretty easliy.



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w gatewood

03-22-2004 19:57:24




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 Re: Re: IH 656 Diesel (Hydro) in reply to He is right, 03-22-2004 18:41:23  
all 656 tractor's with the diesel engine in them had the 282 with glow plugs



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