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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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5th Gear

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PAULIH300

12-25-2004 15:58:03




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Finally got the chance today to try out 5th gear....the tractor sure flies! However,engaging 5th was a real pain.It clashed gears badly trying to shift into high.I finally had to slow down,shift into high and slip the begeez out of the clutch not to stall the engine.Is 5th supposed to be so difficult to engage? I dont plan on using 5th much at all...and seeing as how every other gear seems fine,I'm not all too worried about it.
1955 300U with TA (not engaged).

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Dave (IL)

12-26-2004 10:18:22




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 Re: 5th Gear in reply to PAULIH300, 12-25-2004 15:58:03  
As indicated, the secret is having the the two gears that are going to engage turning the same speed. Synchros do that with friction cones so friction matches speed before gears clash. Think about where the engine speed is going to be when you get to the new gear. 5th gear engine speed is very low for ground speed equal to WO 4th. You need to be pushing off the throttle as it comes out of 4th, let the engine slow down to match the 5th gear ground speed and slide it in. Reason for the double clutch is to let the slower engine speed pull down the front shaft speed in the tranny. Same thing applies downshifting. Listen and think about what's happening.
When your ear and eyes get really good you can go up AND down all day long and not even bother with the clutch! Before everybody here climbs all over me, I'm not saying this is recommended operator procedure, but if you understood it, you wouldn't have been chipping those teeth that led to your post :)

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scotc

01-01-2005 13:12:32




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 Re: 5th Gear in reply to Dave (IL), 12-26-2004 10:18:22  
I hit the clutch as I knock the throttle down, then pull out of 4th, can make the shift fairly quick.



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Bob M

12-26-2004 07:47:15




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 Re: 5th Gear in reply to PAULIH300, 12-25-2004 15:58:03  
Paul - If you continue to grind the gears going into 5th, sooner or later wear will make it so it will no longer stay in gear.

Here's the way to get it into 5th without any grinding:

You MUST be on a hard surface, and one that's level or slightly downhill - so the tractor can coast without slowing for the several seconds it takes to complete the following. (It won't work going uphill or on soft ground...)

First get the tractor rolling at fast as it will go in 4th gear.

Now in quick succession depress the clutch, move the throttle to idle, and move the shift lever to neutral.

Listen to the RPMs and the instant the engine reaches idle speed, quickly release and depress again the clutch, then immediately pull the shift lever into 5th. (If you do it right the lever will drop right into the 5 slot with nary a sound).

Finally release the clutch, open the throttle and enjoy the ride!!

It sounds complicated at first, but once you get the hang of it's actually pretty straightforward. Like anything else practice is key - do it a few times on a slight down grade until you get comfortable with it.

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Hugh MacKay

12-26-2004 07:28:29




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 Re: 5th Gear in reply to PAULIH300, 12-25-2004 15:58:03  
Paul: Since the transmission is not synchromesh, you must try and achive having the input and output shafts of the transmission near the right speed for the gear you are going to, at time of engagement. This becomes quite easy with 1, 2, 3 and 4 as they are quite close to one another, whereas 4th and 5th have wider range between speeds. 5th basically is a road gear and one must remember the evolution of this. Most tractors of the 20s and 30s did not even have the road gear, being sold on steel. Early letter series Farmalls had a device for blocking 5th gear if tractor was sold on steel wheels. Letter series tractors shifted from 4th to 5th somewhat better before the days of TA. With TA you have two clutches having to operate simultaneously as you shift gears. If that adjustment is not dead on this adds diffculty.

In my experience with new Farmalls 300 and 560, 40 to 50 year ago, I never shifted from 4th to 5th on the move. Those tractors would start away on level or down grade, in low side of TA in 5th gear, with any load they could pull in 5th gear along the road. If you were on the upgrade, you contented yourself to 4th until you reached top of hill.

These afterall where tractors, primarily designed for pulling plows, cultivators, mowers, balers, drills, corn planters, etc. They were not race cars, automoblies, motorcycles or trucks.

In my opinion the new breed of users have destroyed the most efficient drawbar tractors we ever farmed with. Rather than a rugged transmissions and engines with big displacment and high torque, they wanted smooth shifting, power shifting, etc. They turned every tractor into a loader tractor or something to chase the cows with. I can remember the days when you put a Farmall in gear in morning, 12 hours later you were still in same gear. It lugged through all the tough spots without shifting.

I have driven new tractors in the past 5 years, tractors all the way from 40 to 250 hp, all makes, they've got no torque, you need a minamum of 4 power shifts to do anything. You compare the cost of one of these new transmissions with your 300 (same size tractor), then compare the return on the commodities they produce 1950s prices with 2005 prices.

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farmalljim10

12-26-2004 04:30:02




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 Re: 5th Gear in reply to PAULIH300, 12-25-2004 15:58:03  
Tractor transmissions are not sincromeshed (sorry about the spelling ) and should only be put in gear and then let out the clutch to start the load you can TRY to double clutch but its very dificult to do with out a foot gas pedel.. Shifting them while moving is what causes the gears to wear on the edges.



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F-Dean

12-25-2004 19:07:33




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 Re: 5th Gear in reply to PAULIH300, 12-25-2004 15:58:03  
Start in 4th. Rev the engine up. Then, push in the throttle (slow the engine) while shifting into 5th. Speed up the engine to the desired speed in 5th. I think this is known as "The Farmer's Double Clutch."



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CNKS

12-25-2004 16:39:53




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 Re: 5th Gear in reply to PAULIH300, 12-25-2004 15:58:03  
5th is direct drive, thus the clutch has to be engaged slowly, preferably without slipping. Some grinding is inevitable. It is often best to start out in 4th, then carefully engage fifth, or start out in 5th with the TA engaged. If you have a lot of trouble getting into 5th, the gears are probably worn.



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David in UT

12-26-2004 20:42:28




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 Starting with the TA engaged? in reply to CNKS, 12-25-2004 16:39:53  
Gents,

Following this thread with some interest...I've got a 400D that has a lot of the same behavior getting into 5th. All the posts have been great. Quick question though: is it ok to start out with the TA engaged?

I have in my head that that's a no-no, but I may be thinking about engaging it while going downhill to slow the tractor...

Thanks,

- David



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Hugh MacKay

12-27-2004 12:50:32




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 Re: Starting with the TA engaged? in reply to David in UT, 12-26-2004 20:42:28  
David: Nothing wrong with starting away on the low side of TA and then shifting up after you get moving. This was one of the great benefits in any gear, starting heavy loads. Slowing down is the only nono.



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David in UT

12-27-2004 13:34:38




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 Re: Starting with the TA engaged? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-27-2004 12:50:32  
Thanks guys! Happy holidays too.



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CNKS

12-27-2004 06:56:38




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 Re: Starting with the TA engaged? in reply to David in UT, 12-26-2004 20:42:28  
It's ok to run in TA all the time, so I've heard, but DON'T use it to slow down on a hill, while traveling in 5th unless you want to replace it. I don't know why starting out in 5TA would hurt anything--unless someone else has comments.



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