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Last rocker arm post

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CNKS

02-01-2005 13:42:40




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(Until the next one)-- After asking 25 or so questions and getting 75 answers (I can't count either), enduring and shaking off an extreme type-lashing from Hugh McKay, I took the whole assembly to a machinest south of town. He measured shafts and arms and told me -- they are within tolerance except for an occasional .001, and are not out of round--SO much ado about nothing. He will dress the tips with his diamond? grinder and everything will be swell. Obviously the tip grinding doesn't take a $10000 machine. The variation between tips is normal, as I believe someone said. I may replace the shafts anyway, as some places on the shaft, along with some of the rockers are at their limits of the recommended range. That is simply to make sure that a slightly out of tolerance rocker doesn't run on a slightly out of tolerance place on the shaft. Probably don't even need to do that. I'm going to bite the bullet sometime and get me a good micrometer and inside caliper, the ones I have are junk. I now know what to do next time, and I really appreciate everyone's comments, even Hugh McKay's. Thanks a bunch.

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brtx

02-03-2005 06:36:21




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 Re: Last rocker arm post in reply to CNKS, 02-01-2005 13:42:40  
been thinking of this accusation that you are changing the forum by supplying the link. a lot of people on this forum will add a link and i have no problem with it. this is about information andthat is why i like the forum. with you keeping the thred going it will allow a person to read the posts easier and maybe help get a more informative answer by reading what other people think. alot of people talk and dont like to listen.pity.it helps me at time by allowing me to take my shoe off before i put my foot in my mouth.sure does help here in cow patty country..

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Peabody

02-02-2005 08:04:36




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 Re: Last rocker arm post in reply to CNKS, 02-01-2005 13:42:40  
CNKS, you and Hugh need to kiss and make up. Both of your pools of knowledge are too valuable to lose from this discussion board:)



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CNKS

02-02-2005 08:34:30




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 Re: Last rocker arm post in reply to Peabody, 02-02-2005 08:04:36  
I ain't gonna go THAT far, either to Canada or that other thing you mentioned -- I belive if you read our latest posts, bottom of P2 or maybe on P3 by now, I think you will see we have straightened it out. Perhaps both of our short fuses need to be lengthened.



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Hugh MacKay

02-02-2005 13:53:42




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 Re: Last rocker arm post in reply to CNKS, 02-02-2005 08:34:30  
CNKS: I didn't think that would fly, and let me assure you the feeling is mutual. Now the trip to Canada or me going south isn't such a bad idea. I am promoting the idea that once we reach retirement, we should not be allowed to buy heating fuel nor air conditioning. We then would have to migrate like the birds. Only one problem I haven't worked out, that being a fleet of Farmalls for each location. Since this is a cut down on polution type of endevour, one would dare not transport Farmalls spring and fall. When I get this all worked out, I have a snowblade, fits any of the offset Farmalls. I will be giving that away. It has earned it's keep thus owes me nothing.

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CNKS

02-02-2005 17:42:43




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 Re: Last rocker arm post in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-02-2005 13:53:42  
Well you can go far enough south to never need heat, but that's either Miami or Mexico, I don't think I could live without air conditioning, though. If you head west to about even with Bismark, ND, then turn south on US 83, theres nothing but boonies for 1400 miles or so, no one will get after you about pollution.



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scotty

02-02-2005 06:12:27




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 Re: Last rocker arm post in reply to CNKS, 02-01-2005 13:42:40  
CNKS, You can do an online search for micrometers and calipers and other measuring equipment, just type in google, enco manufacturing and machine and you can view their online catologue. Most of that equipment is cheap, spelled CHINA, but it will give you accurate readings within .0005. I have been in the trade 33 plus years and use Starret equipment but that stuff is too darn expensive for the occasional user. Hope this helps!

scotty

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CNKS

02-02-2005 07:27:49




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 Re: Last rocker arm post in reply to scotty, 02-02-2005 06:12:27  
I have a couple of the cheap Chinese ones, asked about this on Tool Talk, was told to get good ones, local long term parts places said the cheap ones were ok. I got what I paid for -- junk. I may not buy Starret, but if I would have had one (and learned to use it), I would not have had to ask all those questions. Thanks for the response.



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CNKS

02-01-2005 18:38:33




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 Re: Last rocker arm post in reply to CNKS, 02-01-2005 13:42:40  
I think I started this thing because the last tractor I did, a Super H, I first checked the compression-it was 118-120 on all cylinders, new compression is 130, I think, so the engine was not torn down. I did remove the head, had it hot tanked and had the valves ground, and removed the side plate that has the water jacket and flushed the calcium deposits out of the block as well as I could. I only glanced at the rocker arms, I did check the push rods. Put it back together and painted everything. When I started it I heard a noise (still there) from, as near as I could tell, the valve train area. Not real loud, maybe not even noticable to the casual observer, nothing really banging together, but I don't believe that noise was there before I had the head redone. Asked the machinist I saw today about it, he said it might be because the valve stems were not finished when the guy did the head, and I did nothing to the rockers--in other words, two different shaped surfaces rubbing together. I don't know if that's correct or not, but I didn't want that noise in this one thus the 25 questions. Thanks again for everyone's help.

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brtx

02-01-2005 20:04:15




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 Re: Last rocker arm post in reply to CNKS, 02-01-2005 18:38:33  
hello cnks when you heard the noise in the super h did you go back in and check your valve settings again?one thing to remember you always have noise in that area.there is a clearanc and your rockers work acinstvalves with some pretty heavy pressure to ensure fast closure.if you get the super h warmed up let it idle.take a long handled screw driver andlisten to the rocker area through the screw driver.you should be able to pinpoint where the noise is coming from.im not an expert by any stretch of the imagination but i have never heard of a valve stem being finished at the top.could you possibly have valve rotators?gasping at straws here and rambling.in all the 855 cummins ive rebuilt ive never had to replace a rocker arm or shaft.i have heard of some people that had exchangr rocker boxes installed,but that is rare.im a firm believer in keeping the valves in adjustment.helps the wear factor and in the fuel economy.there is nothing wrong with bringing this thread up.it has been the most interedting one in quite a while.some very interesting points of view also.amazing how much experience is in this board.ive been bit in the rear quite a few times by not asking a question or going to the book.in my case i did learn as i got older.

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CNKS

02-02-2005 07:41:19




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 Re: Last rocker arm post in reply to brtx, 02-01-2005 20:04:15  
I really did not need to do anything to the rockers on my 460, except perhaps have the tips dressed, even that probably wasn't necessary--but I do this as a hobby since I retired (to keep from going nuts) and everything is still new to me -- my goal is not to make the same mistakes twice, and not once if I can help it, thus all the questions. The Super H has valve rotaters, forgot to tell the machinist I talked to yesterday that. The valves were set cold, then hot, including retorking the head, so I went by the book on that. Not postive it is valve train noise. Did a dumb thing prior to that, dropped distributer mounted hyd pump, gear down, on the concrete floor. Didn't hurt the the floor but did good job on a couple of gear teeth. Replaced the gear with a "good" used one, I did not replace the cam gear, so now I have gears with different wear patterns -- could be that, It is noticeable but not loud.

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brtx

02-01-2005 17:02:28




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 Re: Last rocker arm post in reply to CNKS, 02-01-2005 13:42:40  
cnks great news.lee said it all.save your money on the shafts..001 in the rocker area is something i wouldnt lose any sleep over,but it is yourdecision.keep that old mic and inside calipers.lot of people use them in different ways and get different readings.snug fit,loose fit and the vise grip fit. i like the way you brought the thread along.saved a lot of digging and finding. hugh mckay has been on your case a few times since ive been on the forum.but then again everyone deserves their say. will be picking your brain when i get around to painting some of this old iron.enjoy

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Opa A

02-01-2005 16:55:35




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 Re: Last rocker arm post in reply to CNKS, 02-01-2005 13:42:40  
New shafts might not get you much as they may wear quite fast to match the bushings. If you've kept them all in order all the parts will already be worn to match each other and will take a long time to go any further. Thanks for the help on the paints forum.



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lee

02-01-2005 15:23:08




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 Re: Last rocker arm post in reply to CNKS, 02-01-2005 13:42:40  
Cnks, you can rest assured there are lots of rockers out there, rock'in along just fine, maybe just a wee bit out of tolerance. Glad you did not have to spend $700 to fix that.



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