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Sand Blasting

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SuperA-Tx

09-12-2006 09:19:38




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I have taken most everything off my tractor getting ready for sand blasting the engine and other parts. When I sand balsted the back end of the tractor tho sand had gotten in the starter button and I like to have never gotten that out. So things like the starter, generator, etc. that you dont want to get sand in but you still want the rust and paint removed, what do you do? What about the carburetor, is it safe to sand blast around that after you stop up the obvious holes?

Just kind of wanting your feedback on what to look out for and what to keep the sand out of.

Thanks

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Roger46

09-12-2006 18:42:38




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 Re: Sand Blasting in reply to SuperA-Tx, 09-12-2006 09:19:38  
I am just in the finishing stage of rebuilding a Farmall Cub. I have completely disassembled the tractor down to the last bolt. I sandblast only the parts that you can either expect to totally clean out the sand afterwords or that will not be bothered by any sand residue. I never sandblast the engine, but get it hot solvent dipped and it looks totally clean when done. Any remaining rust or paint I power wire brush off. I also never sandblast any hydraulic, electrical, or soft metal parts like aluminum. Masking off can also be dangerous. I masked off a hole in a casting once because I didn't want sand in the cavity. I accidently ran the sandblast nozzle over the tape and blew a hole in it and got sand all over inside. I spent a lot of time cleaning afterwards. Roger

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forklift

09-12-2006 15:01:40




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 Re: Sand Blasting in reply to SuperA-Tx, 09-12-2006 09:19:38  
I buy my black buety from Tractor supply for $4. something a bag. The only problem I have with it is its so big that it plugs small nozzels alot .



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Wardner

09-12-2006 20:15:20




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 Re: Sand Blasting in reply to forklift, 09-12-2006 15:01:40  
It may be that your supplier is only stocking one grit size. Most Black Beauty plants have three or four grades. If your supplier is buying by the trailer load, he should order pallets of varying size. Of course, he may not want to bother with the inventory problems or spoil his customers with a choice.



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Mike CA

09-12-2006 13:26:41




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 Re: Sand Blasting in reply to SuperA-Tx, 09-12-2006 09:19:38  
What is a good alternative to sand blasting on parts where you shouldn't be blasting? Someone (not in this thread) mentioned Aircraft Paint Remover to me once. Comments on that?



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RustyFarmall

09-12-2006 15:03:18




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 Re: Sand Blasting in reply to Mike CA, 09-12-2006 13:26:41  
Mike, there is a tool called a needle scaler, hooks up to an air compressor hose. It is very useful for removing heavy, thick layers of old paint and build-ups of rust. Works very good on thick, cast-iron parts, not so good on sheet-metal. Could even distort sheetmetal.



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Keith-OR

09-12-2006 14:15:40




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 Re: Sand Blasting in reply to Mike CA, 09-12-2006 13:26:41  
Mike, I use an electrolysis tank for all parts that are rusty and need paint removed.

FIT from an other forum has a great website explaining a lot on restoration. after you get his web page up click on "Restoration tips".Lye gravey works great also!!HTH

Keith



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KP2n LA

03-07-2009 22:25:39




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 Re: International Cub 1968 in reply to Hugh MacKay, 03-05-2009 18:33:28  
Thanks for the good info!!!!!

kp



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Wardner

09-12-2006 13:54:42




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 Re: Sand Blasting in reply to Mike CA, 09-12-2006 13:26:41  
Aircraft paint remover is methylene chloride. It is a solvent that won't attack aluminum. Other paint removers are alkyline such as potassium hydroxide. You can use either on steel or cast iron. Use the methylene chloride around glass, aluminum, copper but not rubber or plastic.

Good methylene chloride is hard to find. Store bought stuff has been diluted with other solvents like acetone. Pure MC has a boiling point somewhere around 75 degrees so it is safe to say that all MC paints removers have been diluted or adulterated. The consumer stuff is more so. I used to get the good stuff in five gallon metal buckets from a company that sold building restoration products. I would expect the aircraft formulations are good as well seeing that they are intended to be used by professionals.

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Wardner

09-12-2006 12:36:20




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 Re: Sand Blasting in reply to SuperA-Tx, 09-12-2006 09:19:38  
Sandblasting was my trade for thirty years. I started out doing antique auto parts, industrial equipment, and fiberglass fabrications (tanks and aerial lift buckets mostly) that needed repair.

One of my first customers was the local IH/Dresser dealer. Everything that needed a paint job was blasted by me. They did the prepwork, I did the blasting. I must have done 200 dozers, backhoes, trailers, and loaders for this one outfit. Never had a complaint. The prepwork is tedious and I am sure more man hours were spent doing that than blasting.

Anything that is fragile has to go or be carefully covered. Flat sections of sheet metal will warp. In some cases, the warpage can be reversed by doing both sides. A Farmall hood would be an example. I always used big compressors and nozzles to match. By big I am talking about 750 CFM and 1/2" nozzles worn out to 5/8+. I could sweep an area from six feet, shatter the paint, and move on. Rusty areas would require more attention. The key thing to remember is not to feel like you are pumping sand onto the surface. You want to imagine that you are striking the surface with billions of little ballpeen hammers. Any areas with thick gaskets or shaft seals have to be treated with care from a distance. Sandblasting is really not a skilled job but good equipment and some experience will make alot of difference.

The question of carbrueters came up. The cast iron ones are fine. The aluminum one will have a non factory finish when you are done. Alot depends on your level of perfection. Personally, that is a removal item for me. I would want to inspect the inside of the manifold after blasting so it might as well come off before blasting.

I am surprised that someone is paying $22.50 per hundredweight for Black Beauty. It used to cost a $1.00 a bag at the plant if you bought a pallet. I never used it much. Most customers didn't like the "polluted look" when I left a worksite. I used a dried pit sand delivered in bulk blower trailers and blown into my elevated silos. Lots of silica but I have no lung damage. Again, it is all about the equipment. I could spend an entire day inside a water tank and have clean mucous in my nose at the end. The helmet never came off and I didn't stop for lunch or pot refills. Time passes quickly when you are having fun.

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Sanded n blasted

09-12-2006 16:14:59




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 Re: Sand Blasting in reply to Wardner, 09-12-2006 12:36:20  
Whoops! Thats for 2 bags on the pallets. Ive got a Clemco sand pot, I think it holds like 800#s, with an Ingersol-Rand 150 psi constant feed compressor. Your right,, you dont want alot of sand exiting the nozzle,, if you think about it,, the paint etc etc should come off like spraying a water hose on a dirty surface. It does take a good size carb to flow black beauty, due to its size. We used to have trucks out of Gary Indiana deliver it to us and into a large bin, then we put in an unload auger over the sand pot so we did not have to shovel the stuff, or carry buckets. Now days, a pallet or two does quite a bit for what we do these days.

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SuperA-Tx

09-12-2006 15:42:15




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 Re: Sand Blasting in reply to Wardner, 09-12-2006 12:36:20  
My air compressor builds up to only about 130 lbs so I think there is little worry of me doing any damage to the metal. I have to stay about three inches from the work surface to get any of the paint to come off and even then its slow. When the pressure gets below 100 then its time to take a break because under 100 the paint just wont budge. I have the tractor in the building or I would try some oven cleaner but where it is at I cant do that. I might try some tho to cut some greese that was under and behind the radiator.

I had planned on taking the parts I took off to a guy to have them sand blasted since it takes me so long to do. I may rethink that, I dont want someone to use high pressure and warp the hood or grill.

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Andy Martin

09-12-2006 12:45:22




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 Re: Sand Blasting in reply to Wardner, 09-12-2006 12:36:20  
I'm not scared of silica, asbestos, cigarettes or copperheads. But I do respect them all.

The key point in your message is that you used a good hood presumably with supplied air.

I've breathed lots of blasting dust using only a face shield and don't wish to breathe more.

Most guys doing home sandblasting don't take proper precautions, but their exposure time is small too.



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Wardner

09-12-2006 14:14:22




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 Re: Sand Blasting in reply to Andy Martin, 09-12-2006 12:45:22  
This talk of Black Beauty and lung protection reminds me of the time the local H.B. Reed Minerals (manufacturer of Black Beauty) plant received four rail car hoppers that they were to load and send to a roofing shingle manufacturer. The previous load in the hoppers was portland cement. There was the white residue all over the inside the cars. In some places it was several inches thick and firm. The shingle mfg could not afford to have white streaks in their black shingles. It took me about ten hours to clean those cars because I could not see anything despite two five hp electric fans blowing in and sucking out all the opaque cement dust.

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CNKS

09-12-2006 09:43:55




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 Re: Sand Blasting in reply to SuperA-Tx, 09-12-2006 09:19:38  
Don't sandblast anything without removing all the parts. You will never get all the sand out of them. I don't sandblast the chassis or engine, I use an angle grinder or an electric drill. It takes a LONG time, but it is safe. You should only sandblast "empty" parts. Sand will get into everything. Some people cover the holes as you mentioned. Not saying it won't work, but I don't trust that method.

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Sanded and blasted

09-12-2006 10:07:31




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 Re: Sand Blasting in reply to CNKS, 09-12-2006 09:43:55  
Dont leave any thing open if your sandblasting. Most delicate parts, I would not blast like electrical parts,, generators, starters. Unless I really tape it shut, or dismantle it all and do just the housings. I think sandblasting leaves a good surface for primer to grab ahold of and put a good sealing coat to the metal. Never, even when the metal was new, is it that clean of a surface to paint. If you take the time to tape, seal, every orface, and openening, you can sandblanst the basic parts and not have much get in,, but it does get everywhere, so study what your doing, and cover up them holes! Most blasters, if they have experiecne in blasting tractors, bout know where to shoot the sand, and where not to leave it in long periods of time so it can eat thru the covers you made to keep it all out! Black Beauty materials are good, and dont seem to get in the cracks n crevices so bad, its a bit larger material than silica sand,,,,

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Andy Martin

09-12-2006 10:43:32




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 Re: Sand Blasting in reply to Sanded and blasted, 09-12-2006 10:07:31  
Silica sand dust is as hazardous as asbestos and it is best to not use it unless you know you are immune to it's effects.

Black Beauty is cheap and a better blast media.



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CNKS

09-12-2006 17:15:44




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 Re: Sand Blasting in reply to Andy Martin, 09-12-2006 10:43:32  
No such thing as immune to it's effects, somewhat resistant maybe, but do it often enough and it gets you. I use a hood and supplied air, the same system I use for the isocyanates in paint. Sand is cheap and harmless the way I use it.



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sanded n blasted

09-12-2006 11:02:31




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 Re: Sand Blasting in reply to Andy Martin, 09-12-2006 10:43:32  
and a big ol bag of it is pretty cheap, bout 225$ for a 1000lb bag,, enough to do a tractor for sure!



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SuperA-Tx

09-12-2006 12:16:42




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 Re: Sand Blasting in reply to sanded n blasted, 09-12-2006 11:02:31  
I had been useing Garnet Abrasive (80 grit). I sweep it up and reuse it several times before it kind of turns to dust. Was thinking about getting some Aluminum Oxide but they were out of it when I went last time. I never heard of Black Beauty. Where do you get it?

I plan on the leaving the distributor on there but I will tape over it and not get to close to it. I have disconnected all the wires except for the spark plug wires, Ill leave them there but just not get close to them. Guess I should take the two belts off too.

Short story: When I started this project I went to the hardware store and bought three packages of sand paper, about 15 sheets. I figured that would be enough to do the tractor and if I needed more I could always go back. Besides this was only going to take a week at the most to restore the tractor.


Sooooo , Six months later.....now moved on to a new compressor and a portable sand blasting gun.

How the heck did that one week project end up taking this long? lol We all live and learn dont we.

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Wardner

09-12-2006 14:46:57




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 Re: Sand Blasting in reply to SuperA-Tx, 09-12-2006 12:16:42  
The generic name is coal slag. Black Beauty is but one brand name. There are other outfits but their names escape me. Coal slag is the ash that comes out of coal fired generator plants. If you are near a plant, they will sell direct. On the other hand, they may not due to security reasons. Call first.

Otherwise, most rent-a-tool places carry it but mark it up real good. Google on Reed Minerals or coal slag. Copper slag may be available in your area. I think they mine copper near El Paso but I think the slag comes from the refiners. Anything other those products or sand will cost alot and are primarily used for special situations or are suitable for reclaiming. People are now using baking soda, sponges, small plastic triangles, and for all I know, rat droppings.

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Andy Martin

09-12-2006 12:41:46




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 Re: Sand Blasting in reply to SuperA-Tx, 09-12-2006 12:16:42  
Check in the yellow pages for sand, sand blasting, etc. Black Beauty is very reusable and will mostly be lost rather than worn out.



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Andy Martin

09-12-2006 11:49:30




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 Re: Sand Blasting in reply to sanded n blasted, 09-12-2006 11:02:31  
You pay a premium for those super sacks.

A 100# bag in Tulsa retails for $7.

That would only be $70 for ten bags.

Still pretty cheap.

That was from Mohawk Materials (918-584-2707) which is a local sand company.



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