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450 diesel horsepower

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poor farmer

10-25-2006 09:48:05




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Hey guys I'm back with another question about my 450D. I need about 5-8 more hp to pull my plow (3-18 bottoms). Could I turn the pump up? If so how as I can't seem to find the screw like on my old Case diesel. Also about how much turning to get to that extra hp? Thanks, poor farmer




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1206man

10-26-2006 03:41:39




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 Re: 450 diesel horsepower in reply to poor farmer, 10-25-2006 09:48:05  
Hey, Hello,
I have a w-450-d ser # 776,a standard wheatland start on gas switch to diesel and I don't know too much about it, it is mostly there, I had the engine bearings done and 1 sleeve on #3, and they just got er running for me. I have since got a "good" manual steering gear as the one on it has wa-a-a-y too much play.But the tractor info book guy fay wrote does not describe this tractor too well, have you actually used one?
You sit sorta up there on this and it seems to have some snort, no dyno yet, possibilitys? Thanks for your advice and tips Brian

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the tractor vet

10-25-2006 10:23:57




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 Re: 450 diesel horsepower in reply to poor farmer, 10-25-2006 09:48:05  
IF ya want more out of and old 450 yes you can turn the wick up but on them there is a littel more to it like setting the timming up a wisker and setting the breaking pressure on the injectors up a bit . But before i would do anything i would see where she is setting at now and do the littel check list first like is the oil bath air filter somewhat pluged and if so take it off and soak it and make sure that it is clean from top to bottom check fuel pressure as she may be getting on the weak side do a valve adjustment and check her again on the dyno and see if ya got back anything . As turning up the pump will create more heat now ya have to make sure that the cooling system is up to snuff and that the thermostat is working . I did alot of playen around with my old 450 D and worked the snot out of her for three years avg. 1200 hours a years and this was while working a full time job , saw many of sunsets and saw many sunrises run home get a quick shower and back to work come home in the evening grab a bit and back in the saddel . I had mine set for farming at 75 hp . normaly and for the pulls well the sky was the limit but now the down side to this as my buddy found out with his was a hole burnt thru # 3 piston with 2and 4 with top broken rings a cracked block and a cracked head but he did beat that 4020 deere and won that 5 dollar trophie . . So before i tell ya how do twist what screw go get it run on a dyno and do a LIGHT tune up then see what ya got and let me know. Then i'll tell ya how to MAKE FIRE.

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poor farmer

10-26-2006 07:15:18




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 Re: 450 diesel horsepower in reply to the tractor vet, 10-25-2006 10:23:57  
Hey guys thanks for the replies. Some more info on the 450. The head was replaced 9 mo. ago with a reconditioned on and all of the injectors were rebuilt at that time. The oil bath air cleaner has been cleaned and fresh oil in it. It runs out fine but just doesn't have the guts to pull my plow in 2 hi. on the heavy ground. I've got no access to a dyno so I/ve got to play it by ear. It sounds good when working hard and it still is used on 60 ac, I just gave up all of my rented ground so will just farm the home farm and keep my factory job. This is my "horse" now as I sold my Case 1570 and 1594 and all of equipment for those. Thanks, poor farmer

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Brad in WI

10-26-2006 01:09:33




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 Re: 450 diesel horsepower in reply to the tractor vet, 10-25-2006 10:23:57  
Hey Tractor Vet
I got a 1947 MD that seems to have no guts. Rebuilt motor about 300 hours ago, NEW injection pump at the same time, rebuilt primary pump last spring. I have a K&N free flow air filter on her and a spin on fuel filter. Don't know the ponies it has but it isn't many. My uncle got his fingers dirty in the pump and timing and everything is all screwed up. I do have a Diesel Injection Pump Manuel and my dad and I think we have it where it is supposed to be. Shoot me an email as I would like to give her a little extra to pull the extra 10 feet or so on the track. All I use it for now is tractor pulling and light chores at the future in-laws.
Brad

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the tractor vet

10-26-2006 05:32:20




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 Re: 450 diesel horsepower in reply to Brad in WI, 10-26-2006 01:09:33  
Well if someone has had his PINKIES in the pump then you have know idea as to where is is now and the only way to figure that out is to take the pump to and injection shop and put it back on the stand and see where the delivery rates are and when and just HOW many C C 's of fuel she is putting out . Now myself i only ever knew two men that were super good on the old I H pumps and one of the best that did mine is now long past . The second person that is pretty good is Harry at progressive diesel , not any of his help just Harry . There is and ART to worken on these old pumps that a lot of guys that think they know everything about pumps don't have a glue . There are guys that are super good on a Rossea master and other guys that are the expert on the cummins and other guys that are the GURU's on the Cat's . Now what i can tell ya that was done to mine was that it had the TD 14 plunger and TD 14 loader govener weights with the case ground out to get the 2150 RPM that she would run. and also the case was ground out to allow the rack to move a littel feather back . I ran my timming at + 5 degrees and breaking pressure was bumped up 500 lbs, She had a rattel to her when idealing . While on the stand that is where we did the settings on the pump and put indexing marks on the screw as to 10% over and 30 % over and all out as there was a point that if ya went a hair over the max she would drop like a rock. So now you are back to square one and have to have the pump recal. then ya can go from there.

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Wardner

10-25-2006 11:58:04




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 Re: 450 diesel horsepower in reply to the tractor vet, 10-25-2006 10:23:57  
Cowabunga !!!!, Tractor Vet (I am quoting Howdy Dooty)

What did you have to do after the engine? Like clutch, tranny, final drives, bearings, etc.



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the tractor vet

10-25-2006 20:03:51




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 Re: 450 diesel horsepower in reply to Wardner, 10-25-2006 11:58:04  
The only time that i had a problem with my 450D was when i let a neighbor use it to drill post holes , now what could posably go wrong letting a good friend barrow your tractor to drill post holes???? . Well what he did was tryed to start it on the diesel side and ran the battery dead So we'll just hook the 504 to her and PULL start it so they drug it out of the barn and took her down the road in ROAD gear on the 504 and his brother was on the 450 and had her in 4th gear and let the clutch out and nothing happened and oh wait ah min. here the T/A is on the low side so we'll just let the stick go foward and kerrbam the T/A clutch let go BIG TIME it was like a bomb going off and destroyed the whole center section had a BIG chunk blowen out the side So that was the first time that i ever did a T/A . Well i end up selling out and the tractor went to Pa. and the guy that bought it had a field day at the tractor pulls with her for about 8 years and i heard that the T/A went out on him and he traded it off on a 3020 and i lot track of the old girl till one day i was at the local I H store getting parts and low and behold there she was in the repair shop and the mechanics were buffalowed with this darn miss that it had , at first they thought that it was the head so they pulled the head and had it checked and it was good then they looked for a cracked block and nothing there and they were stumped and it was just setting in the service dept and i walked over and looked at the S/N and yep it was her . The one mechanic come over and he and i are talken and he sayes ain't that your old 450 and i tell him yep sure is what wrong with it he tell me that it has this darn miss that they can not figure out so i just get up on her and fire her up and listen to her for a couple min. and shurt her down and tell him that the miss in caused by bad bushing in the injection pump and run it up to Rish Equip. and have old Cal but bushings and a new seal in her and she will be fine that was over twenty years ago and the darn thing is still running as i have tryed several times to buy her back . Now the down side of owneing a 450 D is that when she does need to be rebuilt the parts are to hard to find and to darn expensive . So as for me it would be nice to hear her under the 4 bottoms again but i would always be thinking about the cost of the engine . As for the rest of the drive line they are darn near bullet proof. I had her on Barrnett Equipment's Dyno one time loaded for bear and the old head mechanic who was a expert I H mechanic did the run on her and he was totaled shocked at just what she would put out and hold it she did what a 1950 Oliver would do when the littel screw was backed out and that was 118.7 Hp. at pto speed. Now i want to tell ya she would realy put out the smoke and stand a foot of fire out the pipe in broad daylite. If ya wanted to fill and 80 foot silo and unload fast then the 450 was the tractor that ya wanted on the blower . One time while fillen a 80 footer behind the one guys barn this one day someone called the fire dept. as they thought that the barn was on fire and the look on the firemans faces when two trucks came flyen in behind the barn was a Kodac moment. Nope no fire just the old 450 blowen a load up the pipe. That old 450 brings back many fond momories.

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Wardner

10-25-2006 21:38:28




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 Re: 450 diesel horsepower in reply to the tractor vet, 10-25-2006 20:03:51  
Nice story and thanks for writing it.

But how come the 560 had final drive problem with essentially the same rear end? You were putting out alot more HP and torque and doing it with 33% fewer power impulses from the motor.

I don't know if I could ever be a "hotrod farmer". I would be thinking the tractor would blow up as storm clouds were advancing on the field



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the tractor vet

10-26-2006 06:02:52




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 Re: 450 diesel horsepower in reply to Wardner, 10-25-2006 21:38:28  
Not all 560's had problems with rearends , since we had a flock of 560's in this area i am thinking that it was was just the first run of them that had a problem , sorta like the 460 with the 2 1/2 inch axel the first batch of them that came out had the small axel and guys around here that bought them mounted two row mounted pickers on them and would bust axels . Talk about a rush going down the field and all of a sudden bang and you think the world came to end . THe one 460 that is still on the same farm since the day she left the dealership snapped both axels at the same time . After the third set of axels they switched her over to the 2 3/4 axels and solved the problem . So as to why the 560's had some problems I guess it was something to do with the inner axel bearing . But here the foggy old mind may be misstaken on this one . Heck we got a tone of BIG V 8 powered M's running around here and they don't seam to be having problems . One guy or i should say two brothers ran a 706 with a 549 V 8 Gas engine for years with out a lick of trouble and i also helped them put a 427 dual Quad Ford in a Cockshut 40 that i had built the engine and that 427 was no slouch , as she would run over 7000 and smoke the 20.4 x34's that were on the back on dry blacktop in road gear. That tractor was built in a day while suffern from the worse hangover one could have . Got a call at 6 in the morning after getting to bed around 4:30 as these two nut cases were still worken hard on the bottel and the big pull was Saturday evening and started at 7 pm . They had a chassie and this 427 in a basket and they had a Case of V/O and a refridge full of beer . At that time i was head wrench for a large ford dearlship and was incharge of the dragracing progrham . I started on building that 427 about 8 in the morning while they worked on the chassie at 4:30 that afternoon we set the engine in the tractor and by this time thee were 6 or 7 people worken on her at 6 pm we fired the engine and i did the last min. tuneing and at 6:30 she was on the truck headed to the pull after a short burn out on the road . That tractor ran for several years and never ate a rear end and them boys would get plum MEAN when they were on the juice and would think nothing of pullen the throttel down and side steppen the clutch . Now like i said these two boys were some hard cases and if ya got them mad at ya it was not a good thing . I saw the one loose his temper at a pull ans got throwen 150 lbs. Do Nuts ( IH wheel weights ) from the ground up and clean over the other side of a tandem axel dump truck like he was throwen a Frissbe and were not talken just one or two weights here we talken about a couple thousand pounds one handed , walked around the truck and threw them into the truck this time.

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