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Thoughts On T/A

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Allan In NE

11-08-2006 03:15:25




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Early morning musings,

Was reading over on the tractor board about guys using thier tractors to pull wagon loads of produce in to the elevator.

Do folks actually do this? Is this a common practice?

If so, I can sure see why some people have clutch and T/A trouble all the time. Just don't think a tractor's drivetrain was designed for the tail waggin' the dog like that. :>(

Dunno, just thinkin' out loud,

Allan

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Jim Allen

11-09-2006 05:07:17




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 Re: Thoughts On T/A in reply to Allan In NE, 11-08-2006 03:15:25  
After reading the stories here, I now count myself lucky. I use my pickup to haul grain, usually using borrowed 400 BU wagons with brakes. I only have four miles to go over pretty quiet rural roads. Flat as a pancake too. Lots of guys here use tractors. I haven't yet and probably won't. There are many small and mid-sized farmers here, most under 3500 acres. Many just a few hundred. The bigger guys do use semis and even the smaller guys often use 2-3-ton trucks with gravity bins. I can see it would be much safer that way.

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Hugh MacKay

11-09-2006 04:12:11




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 Re: Thoughts On T/A in reply to Allan In NE, 11-08-2006 03:15:25  
Allan: When I stopped hauling on roads with tractors I went right to highway trailers and a single axle highway tractor. I had a dolly so I could tow those trailers behind tractor in field. I found the time savings in not having transfer loads soon paid the cost. If I needed more trailers at harvest, rentals were available very reasonable. That truck on it's own created enough positive cash flow, one couldn't afford to take tractor down the road anywhere. In fact I found myself two years into this, having to consider a second highway tractor. The elevator can't and don't keep that grain forever.

There is a farm not far from me, no idea how much land they crop, but it's all corn, beans and wheat. Two 9650 Deere combines and they don't own a grain wagon or buggy. One highway tractor, two complete sets of B-train trailers with two extra pups and a 9000 series Deere tractor equiped with air brakes and trailer tow dolly. He doesn't make anymore field ruts than anyone else. And yes I have seen him going to his home storage with 50 ton behind that 400 hp Deere, but not on 60 mph two lane highways.

I see one of your respondants claims he doesn't get in trouble even on 4 lane roads. That's understandable, 4 lane roads don't have oncomming traffic, plus the guy that comes up behind you knows he has somewhere to go. The dangerous roads are the two lane asphalt roads with high speed traffic.

Then you have the guys that think Dodge Cummins, Chevy Duramax and Ford diesels are hauling trucks. You can buy a single axle diesel highway tractor complete with air brakes for very little more money. Hard to figure where some of these guys get their economics, I guess they just enjoy slow tractor rides across the countryside.

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jim in polk co

11-08-2006 18:58:10




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 Re: Thoughts On T/A in reply to Allan In NE, 11-08-2006 03:15:25  
Cliff N. that is sure one sharp looking 1086, it sure doesn't look like it has that many hrs on it. Best of all its a red tractor!!!
This fall I helped a friend of mine a little bit.
I had his Steiger cougar 1000 with two 744 Brent wagons behind it,naturally both wagons have brakes and lights. I only went as fast as I felt comftorable with.
Didn't have any problems at all, even on the 4 lane hwy.

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Doug in Illinois

11-08-2006 17:06:06




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 Re: Thoughts On T/A in reply to Allan In NE, 11-08-2006 03:15:25  
Looking at some of the other replies, would say been there done that on too many counts. Have transported equipment wide and slow a few too many times. I have hauled grain to town, about 2 miles, when I still lived in Nebraska behind a 1066. Boy, what a combo I had. A flare box wagon and barge wagon both with hoists, then a 225 bu gravity wagon behind them. Total haul to town around 450 bushels. Suffice to say couldn't road real fast loaded or empty, although did pull much better loaded as the gravity wagon kept enough weight thru the tongues of the others to keep them straight. I was sure glad that I only had a couple small hills to go down on the way to town, but had one pretty good size one to come down empty. Never touched the TA. First of all, it (pardon the bad english) ain't a brake. Second, hauling back on it would be a dandy way to get the whole parade swinging side to side in a hurry. I now do mostly hay work with my Ford 5000 diesel here in IL, and usually load the tractor on my gooseneck trailer to save wear and tear on tractor, and get out of the way quicker. Using NH451 9ft sickle and 5 wheel 3 pt rake, so either combo fits on trailer with tractor nicely. Only "slow" move is the baler, often still pull it behind tractor to transport, as I don't want to run implement tires at over 30mph. Just some of my thoughts and more than 2 cents worth.

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Josh in Pa

11-08-2006 16:58:10




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 Re: Thoughts On T/A in reply to Allan In NE, 11-08-2006 03:15:25  
This past summer I was doing just that, pulling a small bin wagon to the elevator about 5 miles away. I heard a bang, and saw wheat going everywhere. A stringer had broken on the wagon, and it flipped over, destroying the wagon. Luckily, no one got hurt, and I was able to shovel the grain into a truck. Josh



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RAW in IA

11-08-2006 16:28:31




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 Re: Thoughts On T/A in reply to Allan In NE, 11-08-2006 03:15:25  
Back in 84 I think (just before Case and IH got together) I sold equipment for an IH dealer, and we had a farmer whio had a 1086 which ahd done nothing but haul wagons mostly on the road. Wore out at least one set of rear tires, and I dn't think it had ever been worked in the field. There are a lot of tractor /wagopn rigs go by our shop every day in the fall on the way t the elevator.



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low budget

11-08-2006 11:29:26




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 Re: Thoughts On T/A in reply to Allan In NE, 11-08-2006 03:15:25  
Guess I dont quite follow you. If your talking farm wagons with no brakes, I'd much rather have a decent sized farm tractor, preferably with wet brakes, than my 88 f-150 pickup. Anyone with sense knows to slow down with the engine and brakes before you downshift a TA or powershift in that situation. Guess I dont feel like mortgaging my farm to get a real rig like a Cummins or powerstroke and a fifth wheel trailer.

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Hugh MacKay

11-08-2006 08:27:13




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 Re: Thoughts On T/A in reply to Allan In NE, 11-08-2006 03:15:25  
Allan: I'm with you but not completely for all the same reasons. Every farmers situation is quite unique. I farmed over 12 miles of country road, two way traffic on two lanes of asphalt (one each way) with 6' shoulders. this was rolling countryside with hills that caused motor vehicles to come up on tractors quite quickly. Add to that there was a sawmill about 1/2 way along my route that was receiving 200 semis per day in the late 70s. that truck traffic doubled in the next ten years. I stopped hauling with tractors around 1976. We had so damn many close calls it just wasn't worth it.

I remember once, in a hollow, on a slight S turn, gas station on my left with great long frontage, rural mail box on my right. I had combine with 18' header, making a 1/2 mile move between fields, thus didn't bother with header cart. That was a mistake. Just as I crossed the center line to go around that mail box, a truck grossing 110,000#, doing 50 mph, came over the hill. From his view point he had no idea how quickly I'd be out of his way, thus he made for the gas station frontage. I saw him immediately in my rear view. Had there been oncoming traffic, I saw my option, heading over a 6' shoulder embankment with combine. That wasn't going do the combine much good as header would have hit the dirt. Can you even begin to imagine what would have happened had there been oncoming traffic or vehicles parked near the road in front of the gas station. Speed limit was 60 mph on that road. Lets face it that trucker would have rear ended a combine rather than head on some innocent oncomming motorist. Luckily no one was hurt and no property was damaged. That finished it for me, after that I rarely roaded a tractor, let alone haul with them.

Some situations may be fine but tractors and 60 mph traffic do not mix. These guys who think they're saving money, really are not. Let the trucks do what trucks do more efficiently. Tractors that never see hard roads get double the tire tread hours. I agree tractor power train will not suffer provided the operator adheres to shifting that does not create shock loads on power train. That rarely happens around these parts anyhow, as most of the guys pulling grain wagons with tractors are little more than capable of driving a bicycle. The top men in any crew are on the combines and grain buggies.

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nballen

11-08-2006 13:26:36




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 Tangent on combine headers... in reply to Hugh MacKay, 11-08-2006 08:27:13  
Hugh (or anyone else),

Why do I always see headers towed behind pickups or grain trucks? I wonder that I've never seen a header towed behind a combine? Seems like it would make sense to have the "package deal" that way...

But having never driven a combine, I'll freely admit I am likely missing something.

Nathaniel



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Hugh MacKay

11-08-2006 19:23:23




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 Re: Tangent on combine headers... in reply to nballen, 11-08-2006 13:26:36  
allen: I've often towed the header cart behind the combine. Sometimes it's just more convenient to tow it behind a pickup. That day in question I had made 3 moves field to field without going on road, header cart was a mile away and I was only going a short distance on road. I never tried that one again.



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Josh in Pa

11-08-2006 16:53:49




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 Re: Tangent on combine headers... in reply to nballen, 11-08-2006 13:26:36  
I've seen the neighbor do it a lot of times. A 2388 combine pulling a 25 foot head is pretty impressive going down the road. Josh



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Bob

11-08-2006 14:08:24




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 Re: Tangent on combine headers... in reply to nballen, 11-08-2006 13:26:36  
Combines steer with the rear wheels. Can you imagine how the trailer would get whipped around following the combine around corners?



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nballen

11-08-2006 14:27:16




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 Re: Tangent on combine headers... in reply to Bob, 11-08-2006 14:08:24  
True...but most (all?) of the header carts I have seen are set up as wagons, rather than as "trailers".

Besides, how fast would you take a combine around a corner? (grin)



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Fluggie in IA

11-08-2006 07:22:29




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 Re: Thoughts On T/A in reply to Allan In NE, 11-08-2006 03:15:25  
I am surprised that there is any question if anyone actually hauled produce with tractors and wagons! I never even gave it a second thought to use anything else until I noticed a neighbor bought a big 400 bu grain truck back in the 70's. The scariest time I ever had, though, was trying to stop 400 bu behind a SMTA. WOW that was no fun! Glad today's folks have learned to use proper rigs and I am out of that scene!

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Janicholson

11-08-2006 06:40:25




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 Re: Thoughts On T/A in reply to Allan In NE, 11-08-2006 03:15:25  
I agree with Cliff below, the stress applied to a TA under full power in the field is the same as the stress on the road, it takes the engine (either direction) to the same RPM change. The field use, may be far mor frequent, and the tractor is loaded (heating/stressing all parts continually when in the field). While on the road it is at High Idle 90% of the time. JimN



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John in Ne.

11-08-2006 06:39:10




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 Re: Thoughts On T/A in reply to Allan In NE, 11-08-2006 03:15:25  
Around this area, everything is hauled into town by semi.I can only think of one full time farmer who farms less than 1500 acres,(there are a few near retirement who farm less)and alot of them have fields twenty miles apart,220 bushel corn,you can't keep up with a wagon.John.



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Cliff Neubauer

11-08-2006 05:56:34




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 Re: Thoughts On T/A in reply to Allan In NE, 11-08-2006 03:15:25  
third party image

For the past couple of years we've been hauling in around 200,000 bushel of grain a year in a pair of 650 bushel wagons behind a 1086 and 5488. The 1086 has over 10,000 hours on it, it's on it's third clutch and original TA. Either of our tractors will easily pull a 45,000lb wagon down the road in road gear and I don't think the road use is anywhere near as hard on a tractor as tillage. Our wagons have lights and brakes and are safter than most of the straight trucks hualing grain around here.

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Steven@ND

11-08-2006 05:37:55




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 Re: Thoughts On T/A in reply to Allan In NE, 11-08-2006 03:15:25  
We used to haul hay with the tractor and a modified stack mover (bale racks added) about a 8 mile haul. Hard packed gravel roads are tough on tires, pavement is much worse.

The only thing about the haul that would hurt the TA is shifting it down to act as a brake...

Rather than spend $5000 on new tires for the tractor after a few years running the roads, we spent $4000 on a gooseneck flatbed with bale racks to pull behind the pickup. Those 8 miles pass by much quicker at 45 mph! Also, my brother's new Dodge Cummins has more horsepower than the tractors anyway!

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IaGary

11-08-2006 04:11:51




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 Re: Thoughts On T/A in reply to Allan In NE, 11-08-2006 03:15:25  
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Mornin Allan

Do it all the time and been doing it for years.

Its no harder on the tractor than plowing.

It is rough on tires though.

I weigh around 85,000 with these two wagons behind the MX200.

Before the MX200 I'd pull around 50,000 with the 1086.

Brakes on the wagons that make it safer now with 85,000 than it was with 50,000 and no brakes.

Its about 7 miles to the elevator and I don't know of any damage caused to any of my tractors from the grain haulin job.

Gary

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Rauville

11-08-2006 05:37:45




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 Re: Thoughts On T/A in reply to IaGary, 11-08-2006 04:11:51  
Does the Highway Patrol ever set up portable weigh stations for these rigs?
Around here, there have been some hefty fines (several thousand dollars) for loaded single axle grain carts on the way to the elevator.



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IaGary

11-08-2006 15:41:02




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 Re: Thoughts On T/A in reply to Rauville, 11-08-2006 05:37:45  
Rauville

I only have about 15 to 16 thousand on an axle with these wagons.

Havn't heard of anyone stop yet but I know what your saying.
Gary



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migraine

11-08-2006 08:19:59




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 Re: Thoughts On T/A in reply to Rauville, 11-08-2006 05:37:45  
The new wagons with full braking system and lights and flashers make it a whole new ballgame. A whole lot safer than some of the single and double axle grain trucks that I just saw running around in Iowa. Thses trucks are only used for a month in the fall and don't get the checkup they really need. You don't have license, motor and drivetrain on another rig to maintain with a wagon. The cab tractors being used are high enough that the lights and flashers show up clearly from behind as well. Just need to use common sense on the road with that much weight and yes there will be clowns at every circus. Just my thoughts Migraine

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Allan In NE

11-08-2006 09:22:18




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 Re: Thoughts On T/A in reply to migraine, 11-08-2006 08:19:59  
Yeah But..... ..... :>)

When the elevator is 60 miles away, I've still gotta go the truck route. :>)

Allan



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IaGary

11-08-2006 15:43:32




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 Re: Thoughts On T/A in reply to Allan In NE, 11-08-2006 09:22:18  
Allan

Yes I agree when its over 10 mi I use the truck also but it only holds about 450 bu so if I get stuck in line with the wagons I got over 850 waiting in line.

Gary



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Harley

11-08-2006 07:45:52




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 Re: Thoughts On T/A in reply to Rauville, 11-08-2006 05:37:45  
In the 70's in southwest Iowa, that's the only way anybody hauled in. I can't remember any trucks back then. Gave you a chance at the elevator to check out everybody's equipment. We used 300 bu. Stan-Hoist wagons and an 806,966,1066 no brakes and no lights about 5 miles to the elevator. Can't remember anybody having any accidents either. Guess we didn't know any better. Now with 200 bu corn everybody up there has trucks or semis.. Harley

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