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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Old H beast running again , but have Hitiachi alt

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SKK -Big Red Fa

12-11-2006 13:09:20




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I got this old beast running again. Has been sitting for eight years.

Converted to the Hitatchi 14231 alternator as suggested, have lots of amps, but only 12.5 volts. Not experienced with this brand alt. I would expect to see over 13 volts. Ran a wire from the S terminal to the bat terminal on the alternator as directed. Had to use a bracket off a Dodge pickup for the time being until I can fabricate a better one.

Took a new battery & internally ballasted 12v coil, new ignition switch, a scrubbing of the sediment bowl-new screen and gasket, new spark plug wires and plugs, cap and rotor (they were fun to find), points, a few feet of 14 ga wire, and better smelling gas than it had in it to start, and a quick drop of the lower half of the carb to un-stick the needle & float and clean out the main metering circuit.

Lot of work but it doesn't smoke, hits strong on all four of the 300U engine's cylinders, idles and fires right off. So there is hope again.

Maybe now my wife won't think I'm quite as big an old fool as she did yesterday, but not counting on that.

Thx SKK for the responses.

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JayWalt

12-12-2006 07:24:45




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 Re: Old H beast running again , but have Hitiachi in reply to SKK -Big Red Fan, 12-11-2006 13:09:20  
Sounds almost like a defective alternator. I would take it off, shouldnt be too hard, and take it to yor local auto parts store and have them test it to be sure the alternator is good, then you know what you're working with.



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El Toro

12-12-2006 06:03:34




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 Re: Old H beast running again , but have Hitiachi in reply to SKK -Big Red Fan, 12-11-2006 13:09:20  
I called my local Napa store and that Hitachi alternator has a builtin regulator. Hal



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El Toro

12-12-2006 04:20:12




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 Re: Old H beast running again , but have Hitiachi in reply to SKK -Big Red Fan, 12-11-2006 13:09:20  
I think you need an external regulator for that alternator. The GM10-SI has the internal regulator. Hal



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skk

12-11-2006 19:19:54




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 Re: Old H beast running again , but have Hitiachi in reply to SKK -Big Red Fan, 12-11-2006 13:09:20  
Thx for replies. The output amperage at idle is less than 3-5. But if you turn on the lights it jumps to around 20, with no change in voltage, but obvious loading of the engine.

Battery took normal charge yesterday before being put into the tractor, using a battery charger.

Also, not standard lights, but large 12v combine lights. The way the beast came.

Are we sure this unit is internally regulated? Need a resistor in the feedback loop? Does it need the V-sense source at the battery, and not not on the alternator bat terminal? The alternator fits a 720 Datsun pickup.

Thx skk

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JayWalt

12-11-2006 18:53:48




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 Re: Old H beast running again , but have Hitiachi in reply to SKK -Big Red Fan, 12-11-2006 13:09:20  
Now, I may be way off here but It's worth a try.

Doesnt using automotive alternators require the use of a different pulley? The alternator require an rpm input simaliar to what it would see on a car. A tractor's engine's maxx rpm in general is around 2000, whereas thats barely an throttle on a car. I'm not sure of what size pulley or if you've already addressed this, just thought I would throw it out there...

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El Toro

12-11-2006 15:36:45




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 Re: Old H beast running again , but have Hitiachi in reply to SKK -Big Red Fan, 12-11-2006 13:09:20  
third party image

Use a hydrometer similar to this for checking that specific gravity in your battery cells. The readings should be fairly close to one another.
Hal



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Roger Mills

12-11-2006 14:28:13




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 Re: Old H beast running again , but have Hitiachi in reply to SKK -Big Red Fan, 12-11-2006 13:09:20  
Actually, whether gen or alt 12 volt system batt is 12.6 V if all cells good and should be 13.8 to 14.2 volts when RPM is up above min, (usually idle is high enough with alt). If batt has bad cell V can go to about 14.5 or a bit higher while trying to charge. Amps are whatever the reg limits them to and reg should match gen rating. Have seen 80 amp alt burned up by VR set for 100 amp. Same as most cars with this system.

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Bob

12-11-2006 14:44:21




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 Re: Old H beast running again , but have Hitiachi in reply to Roger Mills, 12-11-2006 14:28:13  
Roger, you posted:

"Have seen 80 amp alt burned up by VR set for 100 amp. Same as most cars with this system."

Sounds like an "urban legend" to me, and I repair alternators.

Since when does a typical automotive alternator have a voltage regulator that can be set for 80 or 100 Amps?

MOST automotive alternator regulators (if not ALL) don't even monitor the output current, and the alternators tend to be self-limiting, as to current. (Altogether UNLIKE the original DC generators that would have been used on these machines.)

Heck, on many of them, the high current output from the rectifier doesn't even pass NEAR the regulator.

(Just for the record, we're not talking about exotic late-model stuff here, we're talking about alternators from a few years back, that are commonly used for 12-Volt conversions on tractors.)

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John T

12-11-2006 13:54:39




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 Re: Old H beast running again , but have Hitiachi in reply to SKK -Big Red Fan, 12-11-2006 13:09:20  
If the batery is good, alllll lll good cells and charged, it ought to measure 12.6 volts just sittin there and when coupled up to a good charging system at RPM it ought to rise in the 13 to 14 volt range. If not I tend to agree with Bob, perhaps the battery itself is whats bad?? Make sure theres electrolyte above all the plates and that no cells exhibit a grey or milky color. Have a shop load test it n run specific gravity which will tell if its good or not.

John T

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Bob

12-11-2006 13:19:22




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 Re: Old H beast running again , but have Hitiachi in reply to SKK -Big Red Fan, 12-11-2006 13:09:20  
If you are seeing LOTS of Amps, but Volts are low, the battery either needs to charge up, OR has a bad cell.



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El Toro

12-11-2006 13:16:35




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 Re: Old H beast running again , but have Hitiachi in reply to SKK -Big Red Fan, 12-11-2006 13:09:20  
The alternator should be putting out around 14.5 volts when engine is at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle. Hal



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