ih wide front

I've tried to tell the story, but seems like around here coffee-table chatter always trumps BTDT. :>)

Allan

Only the later series large frames used the remote cylinder. The small frame tractors did not clear up thru the 86s.

Oil driven steering should have showed up about the time of the 706s?

Allan

Lee bought this front end at a very reasonable price, thus he can afford some modification. The down side, when he's all done the 560 isn't going to turn any shorter than a 560 factory wide front. I've seen a lot of folks lengthen the steering control arm on every thing from Super letter series to 60 series, knowing it would turn shorter like the 04-06, 56, etc. series. The result was they encountered mechanical disadvantave that made it more difficult to steer.

After I bought my 656, I suddenly realized how much shorter turning it had than 560. I did a lot of checking part numbers back then to see why the difference. Actual measuring told me the difference, 656 had a longer steering control arm. Did I change it, no, IH technician told me the down side, harder on 560 power steering. A few years later I bought the 1066 and 560 got relegated to loader and silo blower tractor.

About the 656 with the 966 wide front. I had not seen this tractor in 6-7 years, and knew when new it had same front end as my 656. He called and asked if he could borrow my 24 front end weights for a tractor pull he was taking part in with his new 1486. I advised since half of them were in my pickup and I was going by his place, I'd drop them off. I noticed his 656, and asked about the 66 series wide front. He told me it came from a 966, and invited me to back it away after we tossed the weights in the loader bucket. It did not have the external steering cylinder, and it handled very much as my 656. He said it was a simple change and the IH dealer had done it for him. What did simple mean to this guy, I have no idea. He was much like yourself, in that he had money to throw around. Two years later he sold his farm real estate and moved 150 holsteins, 5 Farmalls and associated equipment 1,000 miles to a new farm.

35 years ago I spent more than a few minutes, trying to devise a system to make that old 560 more user friendly. Looked at moving platform ahead changing dash, controls to 06 like specs, lengthening steering control arm for shorter steering. Never did any of them, just bought a new 1066 and turned 560 into a loader and upright silo blower tractor.

I maybe stepped out of line calling you silly restoring those 30 year old tractors. I've been every bit as bad with these little offsets. I've completely modified the cultivators to tool bars for cultivating 20", 26", 30" or 36" rows. i've cut down large disks to 20 blade, just to get heavy bearings, gangs, etc. I've built frames for 3 S-tine cultivators, sprayer, two row planter, 3 point hitches, even bought a new Deere 15' rotary hoe, cut tool bar at 7-8 foot mark, built one 8' thre point hitch and 7' one point fast hitch units. Probably for hp involved at $45,000., I may be further out of line than you.

I go regularly to a fabricator nearby, he does mainly fabrications for farmers. Every thing he and his dad have built for me have been direct and quick bolt up to my tractors. This guy is a two man shop, and some of the items I see him turning out for commercial farmers are amazing. I am confident if I took in a wide front from a 560 or 656, plus the wide front from a 966 or 1066, told him I wanted that large front end modified to fit a 560 or 656, it would be done in 5 hours from start time, and it wouldn't cost more than $350. I will further guarentee it would be a perfect bolt up when I got it home, and would stand up to anything a 560 or 656 could dish out.

I was warned 30 years ago, that 560 power steering will not stand up to a shorter turning radius wide front. My main point was, I didn't want lee to think a modern front end would successfully make a 560 turn shorter. Spending money is one matter, spending on something that doesn't perform as expected is quite another matter. Truth is we both thought trying to put that front end on a 560 was not a good move, different reasons, yet similar motive, wasted money.

I saw this done by a dealer, he had a sale for a 966 with 4 wheel drive. IH were able to supply him with a front drive axle for a tractor he had in stock, quicker than another tractor. He mounted the 966 axle on a 656 for a customer. They just left the steering control arm in place and hooked the tyrods on. The 656 axle got sold to a guy with a 300, I expect he bought it without a steering control arm. He was probably able to buy that from IH back then.

I think you are setting this lad up for one, big geometric nightmare.

The stops on the 560 are built into the front bolster; on the 66 front-end, they are out at the steering arms/knees. Consequently, he's going to end up with a turning radius of about 2 city blocks.

Secondly, that rear trunnion mount on the 66 front-end is exactly 2" wider than the 560's frame rails, not to mention the extra depth to the oil pan causing interference.

Then, there's the issue of the 66 front end's different camber angles along with the required different wheels/tires due to the 66 style 8-bolt hubs.

The 560 is three generations older than the 66 series and lives on a completely different sized/built frame.

Allan

He can install the 66 series front end, hook the tyrods to a 560 steering control arm, build up the 66 series turning stops so it turns no shorter than a 560 and yes it will require a 1/2 acre to turn.

Here is the real kicker, the 656 steering control arm is close to 1" longer than 560, the only difference between 560 and 656 steering linkage at the axle. If he lenghtens the 560 steering control arm or changes to a 656 steering control arm, it will turn just as short as any 06, 56 or 66 series, however the 560 power steering will not be able to handle the added mechanical disadvantage. I've seen many a guy lenghten the steering control arm on Super C, 200, SH, 300, SM, 400, 560, etc. It will make all these tractor turn shorter, however the non power steering tractors will steer harder and the power steering tractors will have more power steering unit problems. Worked well on SC and 200, I question the advantage on the rest.

Yes, he can do it if he's content to have it steer like a 560 wide front, they all took a 1/2 acre to turn, lets face it, the same mechanicl setup as Super M, 400 or 450, just has a 2 cylinder longer wheel base. If my memory serves me correctly 6". Yes you can make the oldies turn shorter, but there is a trade off.

I was not there when the IH dealer changed the 656 from it's own wide front to the 966 wide front. I did drive that tractor after change over, it had a loader on it and it steered exactly as my 656 with factory wide front. He did go for the 8 stud wheel and wider tires.

You've got the wrong front end. 766 and up.

Allan