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new to Farmall 400: couple simple questions...

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DennisT

03-26-2008 18:46:58

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Expect to get a look at a Farmall 400 soon, it's for sale and they have had a slow time selling it. (That should be a clue!) Never owned one, or any Farmall model similar. However, M's through 450's interest me. I hear torque amplifiers are frequent problems. Questions:

Did all 400's have torque amplifiers? (if they are troublesome, I probably don't need one)

Any pros or cons to gas vs diesel?

I have no particular farming need for one, I just like older tractors, got out of collecting Deere's several years ago, but am interested again. Have a few acres and looking for something to keep my Oliver 1550 company for doing chores.

Any tips as to for what to look out for? Thanks, Dennis in NE Washington state

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Steven f/AZ

03-27-2008 17:53:07

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Re: new to Farmall 400: couple simple questions... in reply to DennisT, 03-26-2008 18:46:58

Go watch these two videos to better understand how the IH gas start diesel engines work...

Link

Link

Please keep in mind that a PROPERLY tuned one will start and run MUCH better than this example!

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DennisT

03-27-2008 19:23:32

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Re: new to Farmall 400: couple simple questions...wow in reply to Steven f/AZ, 03-27-2008 17:53:07

Well, now that's a pretty interesting video. Sure is a difference from start to later running. Thank you for posting the link. Helps to understand.

Dennis

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kossuth

03-27-2008 17:13:36

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Re: new to Farmall 400: couple simple questions... in reply to DennisT, 03-26-2008 18:46:58

Dennis, here is a website of a fellow whom did a TA replacement in a 400 he has. He pretty much documented the entire process. Take a look and you'll get a rough idea what you're looking at. My dad has a 450 which has a good TA in it and a Farmall M. Both similar machines but the 450 with the TA is way better when doing things that are ground speed dependant. Link

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DennisT

03-27-2008 19:26:24

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Re: new to Farmall 400: couple simple questions... in reply to kossuth, 03-27-2008 17:13:36

Thanks. Got it. Good web site.

Dennis

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kossuth

03-29-2008 09:15:16

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Re: new to Farmall 400: couple simple questions... in reply to DennisT, 03-27-2008 19:26:24

Also, found some better examples of how a farmall 400-450 diesel should start NOTE these videos are somewhat lengthy so if you have only dialup it'll take a bit. Link

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DennisT

03-30-2008 15:14:46

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Re: new to Farmall 400: couple simple questions... in reply to kossuth, 03-29-2008 09:15:16

Thanks for the tip. Nice videos. I enjoyed them and it does make a difference hearing how they start. Dennis

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BillyinStoughton

03-27-2008 12:54:23

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Re: new to Farmall 400: couple simple questions... in reply to DennisT, 03-26-2008 18:46:58

I just picked up a 400 myself. For all intents and purposes, it's a Super MTA with different sheetmetal. As stated below, torque amplifiers when properly adjusted and maintained have one h*lluva long service life even in tillage situations. Don't be afraid to pick up an owners manual to familiarize yourself with how and when to operate the T/A. The 400 is a pretty powerful tractor for it's size and still relatively simple to work on. Parts are readily available both OEM and aftermarket, so that simplifies the situation. You really need to ask yourself what you plan to do with the tractor as that will dictate weather or not you tear into the T/A or not.

Shoot me an email if you have any questions. I've got a fair amount of pictures of mine in different stages of tear down that might help out.

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DennisT

03-26-2008 21:22:28

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Re: new to Farmall 400: questions...sounds like $400 tractor in reply to DennisT, 03-26-2008 18:46:58

Thanks. This is adding up. Too bad there isn't, (or is there?) a by-pass shaft that will allow the TA to be simply eliminated. However, I am hearing you to say that properly rebuilt and maintained, (adjusted), they last a long time. A fellow here knowing these folks told me today that if they couldn't find a buyer, they'd make yard-art out of it. That's when my, "save the old iron," instincts kicked in. Trouble is, some people say things like that, then when someone inquires, the price goes back to top dollar again.

We'll see on this one. I do like the general feel of these tractors though. Thanks for the info on the starting systems for the diesels. I never knew that. So they would have spark plugs, and cut-offs to allow the injectors to take over. Swell.

Might be interesting.

Dennis

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Marty K

03-27-2008 06:48:20

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Re: new to Farmall 400: questions...sounds like $400 tractor in reply to DennisT, 03-26-2008 21:22:28

If the serial designator on my 450 LP is correct, my tractor came from the factory with a T/A but somewhere in its life a previous owner removed it and replaced it with a solid shaft.

Also, the designator for the PTO says it came from the factory with a transmission-driven PTO, but one of the shaft sections has been modified to accept an independent PTO unit which is on it now. Obviously, a LOT of water has flown under the bridge in the 50-year life of my Farmall. It gives it character and a few stories to tell at tractor shows.

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mkirsch

03-27-2008 06:48:02

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Re: new to Farmall 400: questions...sounds like $400 tractor in reply to DennisT, 03-26-2008 21:22:28

There used to be a T/A eliminator kit, and the parts can still be found, but I personally would not even consider it.

The T/A is just so handy. That gear too fast in a tight spot? Pull the T/A. Running out of power? Pull the T/A. This gear too slow, but the next is too fast? Shift up and pull the T/A, and you'll be right in between.

There's only one major disadvantage to these older mechanical T/As: You can't go down hills with them pulled. The tractor must be in direct drive, or it will freewheel down the hill. Very scary, very dangerous, and one sure way to kill a T/A. Plowing and other forms of tillage provide enough drag to allow you to run down hills with the T/A pulled, but anything on wheels... make sure that lever is pushed forward before you start down the grade.

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mkirsch

03-27-2008 07:11:59

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Re: new to Farmall 400: questions...sounds like $400 tractor in reply to mkirsch, 03-27-2008 06:48:02

By the way, the repair requires what's called a "double split." You split the tractor at the bell housing, then again between the T/A housing and the transmission. The T/A is in front of the transmission.

It's not too bad if you've got the right equipment. Heck, in his younger years my Dad replaced the T/A in a 400, on a dirt floor, in the middle of winter, in a shed that was more holes than walls.

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migraine

03-26-2008 20:38:00

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Re: new to Farmall 400: couple simple questions... in reply to DennisT, 03-26-2008 18:46:58

Of the 400 gas and both 450 gas and diesel that I have bought, only one of the TA's was good. I have replaced the other two and also did the clutch, pressure plate and resurfaced the flywheel while in there. I always replace the rear engine seal as well and they should be set to go for my lifetime if they are kept in proper adjustment. I think most of these TA are let free wheel in low side and it takes them out. Pretty hard call for me which I like better, gas or diesel. Each is unique to itself but of course the diesel does have more parts to maintain and parts are not cheap on anything anymore. Cool down is very important on the gas start diesels also. Migraine

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mkirsch

03-26-2008 18:55:08

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Re: new to Farmall 400: couple simple questions... in reply to DennisT, 03-26-2008 18:46:58

No, 50-60 year old tractors with torque amplifiers frequently have problems... BECAUSE THEY ARE SIMPLY WORN OUT :) Most of them are on their first or second T/A. Not a bad average if you ask me.

If you get one with a bad T/A, fix it, keep it adjusted, and it will outlive you. Abuse it or run it when it's not adjusted right, you will "frequently" have problems.

You want a T/A.

The diesels in these tractors are start-on-gas, switch-to-diesel types. You've essentially got two entire engines to maintain and operate. Gas really likes the gas.

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DennisT

03-26-2008 20:19:37

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so I need to learn about TA's; looks like a lot of tear-... in reply to mkirsch, 03-26-2008 18:55:08

I saw one report about working on torque amplifiers. Looks like a tear down similar to splitting a tractor for clutch replacement. I guess I need to read up on all this somewhere. Some labor I can do, (retired), but I wonder what parts run for TA overhauls.

mkirsch: are you saying the 400 diesels have a pony starting engine? Then start the diesel engine itself with the pony?

Thanks, I'll keep digging on this.

Dennis

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ScottyHOMEy

03-26-2008 21:08:40

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Re: so I need to learn about TA's; looks like a lot of t... in reply to DennisT, 03-26-2008 20:19:37

Not a pony. They start on gas and, when warmed up sufficiently, switch over to diesel. In simplest terms, you throw a lever that cuts off the gas on the air intake, and cuts in the injectors.

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