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140 Starter Help..........Please

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KRS_MED

04-29-2008 17:44:05

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I took the starter off of my 140 several months ago to replaced the electrical connection insulator. It was shorting to ground due to the insulator had worn out. Anyway I took it apart then and can not remember how all went back together. There is not a repair shop wihin a hundred miles or I would try to go that right. Does anyone have or know were I may find a diagram? Are any pictures would also be a big help. This was very stupid on my part and should have at least made a diagram when taking it apart. Any help would be great...!

Thanks,

Keith

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TheDurk

05-05-2008 17:41:21

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Re: 140 Starter Help..........Please in reply to ihc49, 04-29-2008 17:44:05

Kieth--Thanks--I've seen them advertised. I had thought it might make it hard to turn when mowing or plowing smow. But like my old man used to say, that's why you have split brakes--let THEM do the work.

/Durk

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KRS_MED

05-05-2008 03:51:23

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Re: 140 Starter Help..........Please in reply to KRS_MED, 04-29-2008 17:44:05

I got the wheel from a local guy who sells older tractor parts T&M tractor they are also on Ebay. But I have seen on ebay were they advertise a 14 3/4" wheel to fit the 140 here is a link.

[/url]http://cgi.ebay.com/IH-Farmall-A-B-C-Cub-Super-A-140-Steering-Wheel-New_W0QQitemZ250244729859QQihZ015QQcategoryZ63988QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem[url][/url]

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KRS_MED

05-05-2008 03:45:06

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Re: 140 Starter Help..........Please in reply to KRS_MED, 04-29-2008 17:44:05

Durk,

What i did was but the smaller wheel for a Cub, SuperA, 14 3/4" diameter. I then removed the hub from the old, and new one and welded the hub in place. Did this two years ago with a small wire feed welder and have not had any problems. Thought that it would make the 140 a little harder to turn, but that was not the case. I really do not even notice a difference. One of the best modification I have done.

Keith

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TheDurk

05-04-2008 19:34:52

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Re: 140 Starter Help..........Please in reply to littlemackinawfarmall, 04-29-2008 17:44:05

Further--I had to do the seat thing, too. Especially in snow gear it was too tight. I like the steering wheel idea--two of my three spokes are cracked at the hub and I am close to needing a new one. Where did you get it?

Theanks, Durk.

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TheDurk

05-04-2008 19:28:44

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Re: 140 Starter Help..........Please in reply to Gary from Muleshoe, 04-29-2008 17:44:05

Keith--I used the Pertronix listed on this site and I love it. Points were a pain to keep running and the spark would weaken over time. The EI is strong all the time. Kept her firing up even as my starter was getting weaker and weaker. It also seems immune to snowplowing which seemed to kill points. (I have a big hill and I have to plow DURING the storm if more than 8" are coming.) Only downside is cost and when an EI blows it blows all of a sudden and forever. Point systems generally fade away and are cheap enough to have a reserve. I still keep a new set of points in my box in case I ever have to convert back in a hurry. Then I would go get a new EI. I converted in 2004 and zero problems.
Durk

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KRS_MED

05-04-2008 08:46:35

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Re: 140 Starter Help..........Please in reply to KRS_MED, 04-29-2008 17:44:05

Derek,

How well did the electronic ignition work out for you? Thought about doing it but all is well with the standard ignition now, if there some performance improvements then that would be the green light for me. As you said I am all for functionality than originality with this tractor. I have changed the original steering wheel for a smaller one due to it tearing my legs up all the time. I am a little tall. Also modified the seat were it would move back about 1.5" more to make it a little more comfortable for me. This tractor will never be sold so I do not see the problem.

Thanks,

Keith

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TheDurk

05-04-2008 01:40:02

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Re: 140 Starter Help..........Please in reply to Andy Motteberg, 04-29-2008 17:44:05

I have thought about adding a solenoid myself. The later years were built that way and not much is needed other than the car-style key switch and the solenoid. The old push button is in an awkward spot and can be tough to push from the seat on a real cold morning when you need to snowplow. I am in favor of function over originality for a 1966/7--I have added alternator, electronic ignition, high power headlamps and rear lamp plus a second high set for snowplowing (she never goes on real roads). Wiring harness built from scratch and modified many times. Flip switches instead of rotary and extra fuse holder in the dash as well.
Good luck with the starter--I'd be sure to keeep throttle at 1/3 or so the first time you fire it up. If it doesn't disengage you will hear it and you can kill it before damage is done. But I would bet you are good to go if armature turns well but has minimal endplay. The Delco 10MT starter is overkill on a 123 cubic inch 4-cyl; the same starter was on V8 Cadillacs and big VolvoPenta marine engines. I have serviced mine exactly twice since 1966.

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KRS_MED

05-02-2008 17:12:51

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Re: 140 Starter Help..........Please in reply to KRS_MED, 04-29-2008 17:44:05

Mr. Hugh or Durk

What problem or would there be one if I added a solenoid and just used the key switch. Now I replaced the key switch with a generic ignition switch which has the starting function. I don't for see any problem with this setup, but I guess that you two guys would have some insight on this. Durk I looked at that diagram that you linked it shows the Bendix type in figure eight. But not the starter diagram. I think I and going to install it on the tractor this weekend and see what happens. Maybe I got lucky and assembly it correctly.

Thanks,

Keith

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TheDurk

05-01-2008 15:50:19

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Re: 140 Starter Help..........Please in reply to Bob M, 04-29-2008 17:44:05

Hugh MacKay said: (quoted from post at 17:42:10 05/01/08) Durk: And behind that large starter button is a solinoid, or a starting switch, which ever you wish to call it. My point was, it changed from the old pull rod with starting switch on top of starter.

Sorry, Hugh--I was just trying to be helpful. To me, a conventional starter switch and a solenoid are two different things. A solenoid is an electric coil surrounding a moving rod (usually iron) that is electrically activated--such as in the case of the solenoid switch that all key-activated starters employ. When you have a solenoid switch, you still need a separate starter switch (mostly on the keyswitch) to activate the solenoid. I just wanted to point out that no solenoid came on this tractor from the factory--it's just a big mechanical push button between the battery and the starter. Sorry for the linguistic misunderstanding.

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Hugh MacKay

05-01-2008 17:15:06

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Re: 140 Starter Help..........Please in reply to TheDurk, 05-01-2008 15:50:19

Durk: Probably just as well you raised this. I do have all 4 wiring diagrams in the history of the 140, and you caused me to look again. The starting went from pull rod with starter switch on starter, to your type with starter switch in dash, and the key start with solinoid. That solinoid is not on starter. Diagram is not clear but it looks like it's between battery and starter.

Prior to serial number 26800 they were all 6 volt postive ground same as 100 and 130. After that it was 12 volt all the way. 26801 to 45000 is same as yours. 45001 to 57723 has key start with solinoid ( IH are calling it a magnetic switch) Four way flashers were added in these. 57724 and above have alternator, quite a bit of dash change, plus they have a neutral starting switch. I presume tractor has to be in neutral to start, as a wire runs from that switch in the gear shift area to the key start. It's in same harness with rear lights.

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KRS_MED

04-30-2008 21:04:40

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Re: 140 Starter Help..........Please in reply to Chris NW Ind, 04-29-2008 17:44:05

Thanks for the infomation you have provided! I pretty much need to know or have a picture of the bendix assembly and were all the dang washers go. any assembly instruction for the starter would be a great help

TIA,

Keith

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TheDurk

04-30-2008 20:11:39

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Re: 140 Starter Help..........Please in reply to caterpillar guy, 04-29-2008 17:44:05

I could not find the one diagram I remembered looking at. Most diagrams out there show the solenoid on top which is quite different than our starters. The full number on our starters is Delco_Remy #1107328 and is of the Delco 10MT series, apparently the most popular electric starter ever made according to an article I found. Here is a generic Delco Service instruction from 1967 that may help:

Link

Are the pieces you are talking about the size of the armature shaft or the terminal insulator screw? I can always pull mine if I know exactly what to look for. By the way, you can get brushes/springs/bushings for the 1107328 at NAPA--just tell them 1965 Caddillac or other GM car. They are all the same.

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KRS_MED

04-30-2008 18:56:32

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Re: 140 Starter Help..........Please in reply to Mudshot, 04-29-2008 17:44:05

Durk if you can find that diagram it would be a great help. I can kick myself(If I wasn't scared one of the fake hips wouldn't blow out :) ) for not making notes when taking it apart.

Thanks In Advance,

Keith

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TheDurk

04-30-2008 18:23:43

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Re: 140 Starter Help..........Please in reply to RockyMO, 04-29-2008 17:44:05

Hugh MacKay said: (quoted from post at 21:23:40 04/29/08) Keith: With a 140 you will have to give us a serial number. 140 had 4 different wiring systems during production. In those 4 changes the starter only changed once from pull rod starting switch on top of starter to key start with a solinoid. That will make a difference in the answer.

Having said all of the above, there have also been some backyard modifications.

I humbly beg to differ. While I am no guru, I have owned a 1966 140 since new and I am the only wrench that has ever touched it. There is no solenoid on mine, it just has a large starter button on the dash wired 4 gauge straight to the starter plus a separate key switch that energizes the coil. That's how it came from the factory. This is a very common Delco starter used in almost all GM cars of the time. I just had mine out (to fix a brush holder)and remarked on the same thing about the drive not retracting; the good news is it worked just fine when I put it in. I had some diagrams, which I will now look for.

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Hugh MacKay

05-01-2008 14:42:10

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Re: 140 Starter Help..........Please in reply to TheDurk, 04-30-2008 18:23:43

Durk: And behind that large starter button is a solinoid, or a starting switch, which ever you wish to call it. My point was, it changed from the old pull rod with starting switch on top of starter.

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KRS_MED

04-30-2008 18:08:20

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Re: 140 Starter Help..........Please in reply to KRS_MED, 04-29-2008 17:44:05

Hugh I guess I have not made my self clear. I need to know the starter assembly. Like said in the first post I took it a part several weeks months ago and can't remember exactly how to put it back together. The main question is were do the copper washers go and the felt washer, also was/is there a spring that returns the bendix after it engages with the ring gear. I am looking for a diagram of the starter assembly.

Thanks,

Keith

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Hugh MacKay

05-01-2008 14:47:09

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Re: 140 Starter Help..........Please in reply to KRS_MED, 04-30-2008 18:08:20

Keith: First we have to establish whether you have a bendix or one of the newer clutch type starter drives. The Clutch drive doesn't have a visable spring.

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Dave BN

04-30-2008 08:50:30

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Re: 140 Starter Help..........Please in reply to KRS_MED, 04-29-2008 17:44:05

What have you taken apart that you can't get back together? Replacing the insultor shouldn't have required that much dismantling unless your talking about a different insulator than I think. Oh, I've done this same thing by the way, that is take something apart and then wait several weeks to try to put it back together. Dave

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Keith R Stromberg

04-30-2008 09:39:24

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Re: 140 Starter Help..........Please in reply to Dave BN, 04-30-2008 08:50:30

Dave,I took the entire starter apart to give every thing a ounce over. The parts that I am not sure about anymore are the copper looking washers, felt washer (maybe Leather)also there is not s return spring in front of the bendix. The bendix rides on a shaft with groves with teeth that mesh together then slide up the shaft to engage with the flywheel.
Keith

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teddy52food

04-30-2008 18:37:03

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Re: 140 Starter Help..........Please in reply to Keith R Stromberg, 04-30-2008 09:39:24

The leather washer goes on the commutator end. There should be 3 washers with different sized holes. They go on the drive end. You have to assemble them so the armature turns free with little or no end play.

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mkirsch

04-30-2008 10:01:43

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Re: 140 Starter Help..........Please in reply to Keith R Stromberg, 04-30-2008 09:39:24

That's a newer style starter drive without the spring. It's supposed to be more reliable, and last longer.

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KRS_MED

04-30-2008 07:53:58

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Re: 140 Starter Help..........Please in reply to KRS_MED, 04-29-2008 17:44:05

Hugh my late fatherinlaw did a few modifactions on this tractor! The 140 was built in 1967. It has a key start but does not have a solenoid on top of the starter. You switch the key to on an there is a push button like a old dimmer switch. On the starter the numbers 07328 as far as I can tell. The bendix does not look like the ones I have seen listed here with the spring. The bendix have teeth that engage then slide up on a shaft. I can take a few pictures if that would help also. I put the starter back together as best as I can by guessing. But I donot see how the bendix will return after it engages with the flywheel. Maybe I misplaced something.

Thanks For The Help!

Keith

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Hugh MacKay

04-30-2008 17:58:31

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Re: 140 Starter Help..........Please in reply to KRS_MED, 04-30-2008 07:53:58

Keith: Sounds like you have the newer clutch type starter drive. That starter drive makes an old bendix look like junk. I've got two of those drives with 16 years on them now. Gone are the days of starters locking on the flywheel.

Near as I can tell from the wiring diagram, the solinoid is in the dash. I still can't figure what you may have put together wrong. Is it on the terminal going into the starter?

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NawlensGator

04-30-2008 09:22:51

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Re: 140 Starter Help..........Please in reply to KRS_MED, 04-30-2008 07:53:58

Med,

The solenoid is in the dash/instrument panel beside the switch.

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Hugh MacKay

04-29-2008 18:23:40

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Re: 140 Starter Help..........Please in reply to KRS_MED, 04-29-2008 17:44:05

Keith: With a 140 you will have to give us a serial number. 140 had 4 different wiring systems during production. In those 4 changes the starter only changed once from pull rod starting switch on top of starter to key start with a solinoid. That will make a difference in the answer.

Having said all of the above, there have also been some backyard modifications.

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