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Garden Tractors Discussion Forum

301 help - again.

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Busted Rod

01-08-2005 09:56:35




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One more time.

For some reason I have positive crankcase pressure on a newly rebuilt 12 HP. There is a huge plum of smoke out the exhaust that I assume to be valve related. I'll address the valves in time but I'm lost right now.

I have checked the breather assembly very carefully when it was going back together on the bench and twice since it refired. The Kohler website shows an exploded view for the K241 assembly which I followed. It did not say K301 but the parts were identical, so it seemed logical.

What am I missing? She runs smooth and quiet but smokes this bluish white smoke at idle and operating speeds. I did drain the gas this morning as well.

John

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ANON

01-10-2005 16:54:17




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 Re: 301 help - again. in reply to Busted Rod, 01-08-2005 09:56:35  
Sorry, should have scrolled down a few postings.I take it you used the chrome rings? If you did it may have to run 15 or 20 hours to start seating those suckers. This has been discussed so many times on this forum. Some people don't like the chrome and find the plain cast service rings and straightens out the problem right away. I have only had problems with the chrome rings in 3 rebuilds I have done.

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Busted Rod

01-10-2005 17:16:51




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 Update. in reply to ANON, 01-10-2005 16:54:17  
Well, I was wrong all along. I built a manometer and it pulled at least 12 inches of vaccuum at idle, a little less wide open.

Went back to the machine shop who did the .010 over bore and set the valves. I explained my problem. He had the chrome rings with the block so he left the cylinder a little rough to help them seat. I guess that is common) He said the valve guides were right there where they should be. He asked me to pull the plug to help determine if it was ring bypass or valve bypass. Plug was ugly, nearly had enough black gook to fill the gap.

Bottomline is, I need to pull the head and see what's going on. He will air test the chamber to determine blow by in the cylinder. I can gaurantee there are no bugs flying around anywhere near my shop. If it's the rings, I'll get ten over non chrome and be done.

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ANON

01-11-2005 16:14:34




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 Re: Update. in reply to Busted Rod, 01-10-2005 17:16:51  
That is what happened to the ones I had problems with. Finally got it right by honing with 600 grit stones and keep them wet!! I let them run for 5 minutes with 10W40 then drain them. Then run them for 30 minutes with 10W40 and drain them again. From then on I run 15w50 Mobil 1. Don't run it over half throttle for first 5 hours or so.



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ANON

01-10-2005 16:47:54




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 Re: 301 help - again. in reply to Busted Rod, 01-08-2005 09:56:35  
I just have to ask, did you have it bored and a new piston or did you hone it and reuse the old piston. Do you know what the piston clearance and ring gap was?



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tompepper

01-08-2005 14:28:06




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 Re: 301 help - again. in reply to Busted Rod, 01-08-2005 09:56:35  
Take the breather off and filp it..you might have it up side down.yes there is a differance and it will cause your problem...



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Busted Rod

01-10-2005 06:41:40




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 Re: 301 help - again. in reply to tompepper, 01-08-2005 14:28:06  
The breather has "top" stamped right into it and the weep hole is to the bottom.



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Bob

01-08-2005 10:59:06




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 Re: 301 help - again. in reply to Busted Rod, 01-08-2005 09:56:35  
Exhaust smoke AND crankcase pressure point towards a piston ring sealing problem... broken ring(s), bore out-of-round, or just not run long enough to seat new rings. (Was it rebored, or did you just break the glaze?)

The valve in the breather is designed to let air OUT of the crankcase as the piston comes down, and not let it back in as the piston goes back up, so you actually wind up with negative pressure in the crankcase. Does the way you have the breather assembled make sense for it to work that way?

You say you have POSITIVE crankcase pressure. Is it blowing the dipstick out?

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Busted rod

01-08-2005 14:06:26




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 Re: 301 help - again. in reply to Bob, 01-08-2005 10:59:06  
I had it bored .010 over, new piston, new rings, new valves. I checked all tolerances of the new rings in the bore and made sure they went in the right way. It has about 15 - 20 minutes run time since rebuild. The only thing not done was the valve stems, but it is way to much smoke for that. The Kohler website says it should be a 5 - 10 inches of vacuum, I'm guessing there is more pressure than that pushing out.

It is not actually blowing the dipstick out but it definitely has some internal pressure. I tried putting a shim(1/4" washer) onto the threaded stud just under the outer cover and gasket to be sure the reed contacted the baffle. It might of made it worse but I was so discusted I didn't run it that long. I can pick up a new reed on Monday and give that a try, I didn't expect it to be a consumable piece.

Any Kohler aces in CT?

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Bob

01-08-2005 20:43:42




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 Re: 301 help - again. in reply to Busted rod, 01-08-2005 14:06:26  
If it's NOT pushing the dipstick out, how are you determining it has too much pressure in the crankcase? Usually, blowing the dipstick out is the first sign of crankcase pressure on these.

Have you checked the pressure/vacuum with a "U" tube manometer, as shown in the manual?



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Busted Rod

01-10-2005 06:39:29




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 Re: 301 help - again. in reply to Bob, 01-08-2005 20:43:42  
It just got back to the machine now. It is supposed to be 5" to 10" of vaccum, there is definitely positive pressure in the crankcase. It does not push the dipstick out but it does push out of the tube. I will build a manometer this afternoon to determine how much pressure there is.

I pulled the breather yet again and it is put together correctly.



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JT

01-08-2005 10:03:46




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 Re: 301 help - again. in reply to Busted Rod, 01-08-2005 09:56:35  
Did you replace the breather reed and the little filter in it when you put it back together. Also there is a little rubber tube that goes on the stud to hold the breather reed tight against the breather base.



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