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Sputter, dies, not the coil, not the ig switch, not....

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rob 8N11071 KS

05-17-2002 08:47:58




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Summary: After a few minutes of running, front mount 8N slowly starts to sputter out, then dies. It will restart and and idle with no problem.

Cleaned the carb out.

Wired around the ignition switch.

Swapped out the coil (not again, just the first time).

Checked my vent hole in the gas tank cap. Not clogged.

When I cleaned the carb I checked the fuel flow. I appears to me plenty of fuel is flowing.

Other possibilities suggested:

Intake manifold gasket leak: How do I detect this?

Ballast resistor, where is this located?

Condensor, is this part of the points?


I am about ready to turn this over to a professional.

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gene n ky

05-18-2002 02:12:06




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 Re: Sputter, dies, not the coil, not the ig switch, not.... in reply to rob 8N11071 KS, 05-17-2002 08:47:58  
my 8n did the exact same thing --still does it once in while. what i noticed is the sediment bowl is full but the ( glass type ) fuel filter on the other side of engine is empty or near empty. one of these days i will get a new fuel line gene n ky



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Al

05-17-2002 16:57:21




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 Re: Sputter, dies, not the coil, not the ig switch, not.... in reply to rob 8N11071 KS, 05-17-2002 08:47:58  

The condensor will cause this problem in about 1 out of 100 such events. The other 99 will be solved by a restriceted fuel flow such as the screens being stopped up or the needle having trash in it in the carb. The reason it will run good for a while is that the carb and fuel line seep full of gas while sitting. When you start the tractor it will run fine until this reserve is used. After it stops there is a small amount of fuel reaching the carb which will allow it to idle. Speed up the engine, get too much air and it will die unless you quickly go back to idle. Clean the fuel lines and screens (3)first and then clean the carb. Only a tiny speck or trash or rust will slow down or stop the fuel
entering the carb. AL

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Frank(nmi)

05-17-2002 14:27:03




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 Re: Sputter, dies, not the coil, not the ig switch, not.... in reply to rob 8N11071 KS, 05-17-2002 08:47:58  
If you haven't drained the gas and removed the sediment bowl and checked the screen filter, do it. I had the EXACT same conditions as you also thought I had plenty of fuel flow ....wrong I found a piece of stick broken off in the fuel line inside the screen filter where some genius probably tried to clean the line before. Removed it Problem solved !!! Cost ....nothing. good luck Frankj

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When you find out... Steve IA

05-17-2002 12:21:29




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 Re: Sputter, dies, not the coil, not the ig switch, not.... in reply to rob 8N11071 KS, 05-17-2002 08:47:58  
...let us know. We're rootin' for you. Steve 8N 169302



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rob 8N11071 KS

05-17-2002 12:58:56




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 Re: Re: Sputter, dies, not the coil, not the ig switch, not.... in reply to When you find out... Steve IA, 05-17-2002 12:21:29  
I try real hard to followup when I have problems like this.



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Dell (WA)

05-17-2002 09:59:31




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 Re: Sputter, dies, not the coil, not the ig switch, not.... in reply to rob 8N11071 KS, 05-17-2002 08:47:58  
Rob..... ...."Summary: After a few minutes of running, front mount 8N slowly starts to sputter out, then dies. It will restart and and idle with no problem"

Since you claim bypassing your ignition switch doesn't solve your problem, and since it takes about 1 hr for a bad ignition coil to make itself know, and since it restarts that tends to absove the battery, the slowly starts to sputter is indictive of a "leaky condenser". Replace it..... .....Dell

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rob 8N11071

05-17-2002 10:45:48




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 Re: Re: Sputter, dies, not the coil, not the ig switch, not.... in reply to Dell (WA), 05-17-2002 09:59:31  
Yeah, I alligator clipped around the ig switch (kinda unnerving to turn the switch off and have the tractor keep running) so I ruled that out.

As for the condenser, I don't have my manual with me here at work -- is this something like the coil that pops in and pops out? Or do I have to adjust the timing?



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ED-IL

05-17-2002 11:20:40




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Sputter, dies, not the coil, not the ig switch, not.... in reply to ED-IL, 05-17-2002 11:08:15  
Oops - condensor is # 17 in exploded view.

No timing adjustment is necessary.



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rob 8N11071 KS

05-17-2002 13:08:46




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sputter, dies, not the coil, not the ig switch, not.... in reply to ED-IL, 05-17-2002 11:20:40  
Sorry to be so brain dead. I can get that same tuneup kit locally on the way home.

Just to clarify -- I don't need to adjust the timing by replacing the points OR the condensor OR the rotor?

(I usually have my FO manual at work when interrogating the board so heavily. I don't today. I just want to make sure I have everything I need before leaving town).



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ED-IL

05-17-2002 14:02:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sputter, dies, not the coil, not the ig switch, not.... in reply to rob 8N11071 KS, 05-17-2002 13:08:46  
About one month ago I redid my 2N's points, etc.

I did it in the family room in front of the TV. I was watching the tune-up video and I seem to recall that there is no timing adjustment on the front mount distributor.

Something I didn't mention before. The master tune-up kit didn't come with a gap strip, as I had seen with other points replacement kits. I used my sparkplug gauge which unfortunately didn't go down to .018, which is the required gap. So I have a 2N with gap set to .020. Doesn't seem to matter though.

Also make sure when replacing the distributor that the rotor shaft key is set in the engine before tightening the bolts. The housing is alluminum cast and will crack if not properly set.

You might want to replace the gaskets on the distributor while you have it apart.

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Johnny

05-17-2002 09:42:24




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 Re: Sputter, dies, not the coil, not the ig switch, not.... in reply to rob 8N11071 KS, 05-17-2002 08:47:58  
I'm assuming you do not have an in line fuel filter. Those have been known to cause this prob. My 2N does that when I get down to under 2 gallons in the tank. I'm assuming you have plenty of gas in tank. Does it sputter out when you put it under load, if sounds like it may be a governor prob.



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rob 8n11071 ks

05-17-2002 10:43:16




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 Re: Re: Sputter, dies, not the coil, not the ig switch, not.... in reply to Johnny, 05-17-2002 09:42:24  
Oops, I forgot to cover that as well. I do not have an inline fuel filter.



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Evil Steve

05-17-2002 09:29:50




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 Re: Sputter, dies, not the coil, not the ig switch, not.... in reply to rob 8N11071 KS, 05-17-2002 08:47:58  
Rob-

I know some on this board disagree about wholesale replacement of compenents as a way to fix problems, but putting in a new condensor (yes part of distributor), points (gapped correctly), rotor, cap, little copper distributor wire, coil, plugs, etc. are fairly cheap and elimnate a host of potential problems OR COMBINATIONS OF LITTLE THINGS that add up to a problem like yours.

Chnage these things out first and try her. If it doesn't work you haven't spent much and you have the old parts to use as replacements.

Now, It is possible to detect SOME leakage in the intake man. gasket by squirting heavy oil around the gasket while engine's running, but you can't get all the areas and may miss the area that is leaing (if it is). Personally don't think that's your problem.

After tractor dies have you pulled the plugs out (hot) and looked at the sparks in each plug? If nice and white/blue, then you do not have an ignition problem, start looking for fuel supply related problem. If you are getting plenty of gas TO the carb, then check carb float level air/fuel screw settings. Check all supply lines for leaks like by that damnable fuel bowl. It has a habit of backing itself out and sucking air into the line there.

If these check out, you can try the manifold test I described, but again, it only works if you've squirted oil on a leak area.

Your problem is definately ignition or fuel related so keep working these areas. It's so easy to overlook something simple. If you saw a post from me a few days ago about an almost invisible tear in the rotor spring that's an example of how a $2 part can make all the difference.

Don't give up. Learn your tractor and you'll be able to diagnose and fix problems very quickly.

Best of luck.

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ED-IL

05-17-2002 09:17:39




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 Re: Sputter, dies, not the coil, not the ig switch, not.... in reply to rob 8N11071 KS, 05-17-2002 08:47:58  
spray WD40 on gasket and see if it stays running - it seals em up for a little bit.

ballast resistor is behind dash at terminal block - check voltage going in and out - should be 6 volts in, 6 out with points open, 3.2 with 'em closed - make sure it is not bypassed.

condensor is in distributor, below where coil sits - usually replaced at same time as points - check point gap too.

ride this one dude - you can do it!

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