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Dumbest question ever heard on this board

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Rob

03-21-2003 20:55:16

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OK, I am gonna embarass myself here, but I need to ask anyway. I just bought an 1950 8n for bushoging. The tractor came with a bushhog (not bush hog brand) and a pull behind snow blade. The guy I bought it from told me that he would come back and show me how to use the bush hog, as he said, "it's not as simple as it looks." Well, the guy must have forgot to tell me about the unconditional 48 hour warranty, because he never came back to show me how to hook up the bush hog (or for me to fuss at him for selling me someting that died 2 days later)I guess I should have known that a fifty year old tractor would have a few "issues". At any rate, the ol' gal just got a clean bill of health from the "tractor doctor" and is back home, after only minor surgery on the carb and points, and a new coil and dist. cap. My long winded question here is: Is hooking up and usng the bush hog more complicated than it looks? I am a new farm boy here, and I greatly appreciate all suggestions and advise. I have learned a lot from this forum, and greatly appreciate all of your help in my recent dilemas.

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Snowplow

03-23-2003 10:15:47

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Re: Dumbest question ever heard on this board in reply to Rob, 03-21-2003 20:55:16

I haven't read the posts below but i'm sure you've heard by now that this isn't a dumb question. Hoggin' is tricky work. Hooking up the machine is fairly simple, and obvious, only make sure you get an over riding coupler. You'll figure most of the lessons out the hard way no matter what you read here.. Just make sure that your pto is off when starting and the rest will work itself out. If it was easy to break these machines there wouldn't be so many around, your body however does not play by those same rules.

Go slow and be safe!

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Mike in La.

03-22-2003 16:34:16

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Re: Dumbest question ever heard on this board in reply to Rob, 03-21-2003 20:55:16

Bush hog hook-up and use is easy but unsafe without an over-running coupler. Getcha one before trying any hoggin. Good luck

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Richard(WY)

03-22-2003 08:21:53

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Re: Dumbest question ever heard on this board in reply to Rob, 03-21-2003 20:55:16

Rob, in addition to the ORC, I also use limiter chains. These attach at the top of the mower deck where the pins are that the lift arms go on to. They are also attached at the toplink on the tractor. You adjust the height of the mower deck with the lift arms and then use the chains to take some of the strain off the hydraulic system. It also allows the hog to ride up and over bumps and uneven ground. There are plans to build these yourself or you can buy them. And be safe.

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Upper Peninsula,Mich

03-22-2003 07:49:11

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Re: Dumbest question ever heard on this board in reply to Rob, 03-21-2003 20:55:16

Hi Rob. There is a very good article on Mounting and using Brush Hogs in this forum. Go to the columes on the left of this posting. Under Research and Info. click on ARTICLES. Scroll down to General Tractor Information. Then scroll down to and click on *Choosing, Mounting and Using a Brush Hog type mower.
This should answer most of your question. If you have more post again, befor using your Hog. Good luck and think before you act when using your tractor. Think about what could happen if you proceed. Ron

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Where are you...Barnstormer

03-22-2003 06:52:31

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Re: Dumbest question ever heard on this board in reply to Rob, 03-21-2003 20:55:16

Rob, obviously no one thought your question was dumb. If you were to give your location there may be an experienced operator nearby willing to spend a little time with you. I really cringe thinking of the possible damage, or worse, possible injury without some onsite help. If you are within 20 miles of me in Ypsilanti, Michigan, I'll be there.

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Rob

03-22-2003 07:23:58

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Re: Re: Dumbest question ever heard on this board in reply to Where are you...Barnstormer, 03-22-2003 06:52:31

Wow! you guys are awesome! Thanks for all the feedback. I really appreciate the offer Barnstormer, but I am 20 miles south of Charlottesville Virginia. Don't think you would want to make that drive. I think after I get the ORC I am gonna get with the neighbor and get him to give me a few pointers before I just haul off and start bush hoging. Believe me, I have no desire to mangle myself or my equipment from not knowing what I am doing. Is tractor supply a good place to get the ORC? Or should I just order one from an online dealer that specializes in 8N tractors? I understand that there is a size difference in the PTO and the bush hog shaft. Does the ORC fit on to the shaft I already have? Or does it replace it? (the bush hog came with 2 shafts; one that goes to the bush hog, and one that goes to the PTO; they connect by one slipping inside the other. I suppose this is to have travel when the bush hog is lifted up and down...is that correct?) Once again thank you ALL for all your help!

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Ole Henry (Va)

03-22-2003 15:13:46

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Re: Re: Re: Dumbest question ever heard on this board in reply to Rob , 03-22-2003 07:23:58

Rob, I'm ~30 minutes south of Lynchburg (12 miles SE of Altavista), get up that way sometimes. Give me an E-mail with directions, may stop in.

And remember, there's no such thing as a dumb question.

John A

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George Willer

03-22-2003 09:07:32

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Re: Re: Re: Dumbest question ever heard on this board in reply to Rob , 03-22-2003 07:23:58

Rob,

You've been given a lot of very good advice, but I haven't seen any mention of timing the drive shaft when you slide the two halves together. You have a 50/50 chance of getting it right, but you should make ABSOLUTELY sure the yokes on the two ends lie in the same plane. It will run MUCH smoother.

I got my 'hog' free from the previous owner who was running it with the shafts out of time. The resulting torsional vibration shook the bolts out of the gear case, causing loss of lube, so he 'knew' it was junk. It was an easy repair!

George Willer

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Darrel(ok)

03-22-2003 11:56:44

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Dumbest question ever heard on this board in reply to George Willer, 03-22-2003 09:07:32

A lot of drive shafts now have an offset key design that will not let them be put together wrong.

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george Willer

03-22-2003 14:00:22

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dumbest question ever heard on this board in reply to Darrel(ok), 03-22-2003 11:56:44

That's true, but this sensible change is not retroactive. Those without this feature still have a 50/50 chance to be wrong if the operator is not aware of how to time the shaft correctly.

It's even possible for the shaft to be built wrong originally, so it can't be assembled correctly without serious blacksmith work. That was the case with mine.

George Willer

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bj/8n/mt

03-22-2003 07:46:11

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Re: Re: Re: Dumbest question ever heard on this board in reply to Rob , 03-22-2003 07:23:58

The two pieces you have add up to one drive shaft with a slip joint to take up difference in drive shaft length as you raise and lower the mower. Watch the geometry as you lift the mower or take a "how long is it stick" to it and you will see what I mean.

PTO drive shafts came from Ford as 1 1/8 inch in diameter six spline which was Ford standard. For reasons lost in antiquity the industry went to 1 3/8 inch for a standard. Many n series have been converted to 1 3/8 and the only way to know for sure is with that "how long is it stick"

ORC's come in either flavor-- 1 1/8 at PTO or 1 3/8 at PTO both with 1 3/8 at implement end. Ford New Holland also sells an adaptor.

If you aren't already up to your neck in safety tips, also make sure that all of the guards are in place since those rotating blades can fling stuff a long ways and exposed u joints love to suck in shirt tails. Any more questions just ask.

Your mileage may vary

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Barnstormer

03-22-2003 07:45:36

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Re: Re: Re: Dumbest question ever heard on this board in reply to Rob , 03-22-2003 07:23:58

Goodmorning. The tractor pto is about 3 inches long. If your bush hog shaft now fits your pto, it either is a 1 and 3/8 pto or there is a shim added. Check that first and remove the shim, it just slides off the splines. Now you should know whether you need a 1 and 1/8 by 1 and 3/8 ORC or a 1 and 3/8 by 1 and 3/8 ORC. Tractor parts suppliers including the sponsor of this great site sell ORC. The ORC will add about 8 inches to the length of the tractor PTO. This may require that you shorten the bush hog coupling shaft, the two pieces that you mention that slide together. HTH
Gotta go, son closed on first house, yesterday.

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Dell (WA)

03-22-2003 07:45:17

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Re: Re: Re: Dumbest question ever heard on this board in reply to Rob , 03-22-2003 07:23:58

Rob..... ...the 2-piece PTO to brushog driveshaft is made to be shortened so you can lift the brushog. Be prepared to "sacrafice" some hacksaw blades to the PTO gods. You'll need to cut about 4" off the ends of both PTO drive shafts to allow for the extra length of the Over Running Coupler (ORC) DO NOT GREESE THE DRIVE SHAFTS!!! Grease the U-Joints ONLY.

You need to know your tractor's PTO size (1-1/8 or 1-3/8) and you need to know your brushog PTO joint size (1-3/8 or 1-1/8). The ORC comes in 4-combinations of sizes. Modern PTO specs: 1-3/8 F & M, early N-Ford 1-1/8 M, unless changed out to modern PTO ($100). Get yer tapemeasure out..... ..Dell

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He sure needs to check first.....Darrel(ok)

03-22-2003 12:12:55

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Dumbest question ever heard on this board in reply to Dell (WA), 03-22-2003 07:45:17

He says the mower came with the tractor. This can mean that the mower has already been used with this tractor. Whether or not that is the case, the previous owner may have removed the ORC if he used one. Cutting down the shaft too early without first making sure it has an ORC could be a costly mistake.

Darrel.

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bob

03-22-2003 06:08:37

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Re: Dumbest question ever heard on this board in reply to Rob, 03-21-2003 20:55:16

I was new to brush hoggin last year. It,s a very formidable piece of equip. You can hook up the 3 point like BG says but not engage the drive shaft into the tractor pto (push or wire the shaft out of interference with lift). engage the pto and lift the hog a little (2 in) I did this a few times to get a feel for the hog weight,lift clearances, steering. when you decide to engage the shaft(grease it) to the pto make sure you are on flat ground so the blade does not strike the ground before you can lift it. operate pto and lift from the tractor seat. good luck
bob

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Buckeye Fan

03-22-2003 05:58:20

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Re: Dumbest question ever heard on this board in reply to Rob, 03-21-2003 20:55:16

Please don't forget to have the drive shaft guard in place. If it doesn't have one, get one at your local tractor supply, cheap plastic, it covers the universal joints, and saves limbs. Buckeye

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Jim Cox SW Missouri 9N

03-21-2003 21:51:19

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Re: Dumbest question ever heard on this board in reply to Rob, 03-21-2003 20:55:16

get an overrunning clutch NOW, or else Dell will give you a good talkin'-to. Without it, you'll have to plan your stops and turns a half hour in advance to prevent front end damage to your tractor, your fence, cars, etc Jim Cox
starter rebuilder guy

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Rob

03-22-2003 04:04:39

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Re: Re: Dumbest question ever heard on this board in reply to Jim Cox SW Missouri 9N, 03-21-2003 21:51:19

Thanks for the info! Just one more question..What's an Overrunning Clutch? How will I know if I have one? There are two shafts on this thing; one that engages the PTO, and the other one is connected to the bush hog. Both have a universal joint on them. How does the overrunning clutch help with turning around tight spots like fence posts, barns, creek banks, wife's car, etc.? Does anyone have a picture of this thing so I can get an idea of what I'm looking for, or if I alredy have it? Thanks again for the help.

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Ole Henry - (Va)

03-22-2003 04:50:40

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Re: Re: Re: Dumbest question ever heard on this board in reply to Rob, 03-22-2003 04:04:39

Rob, there's an override clutch (ORC)on E-bay, #2516226578. This gismo slips over the PTO shaft on your tractor and is secured by a roll-pin. The bushhog shaft attaches to the exposed shaft on the ORC.

If you don't have an ORC, the momentum of the bushhog will continue to drive the tractor after you engage the clutch, therefore continuing your travel into whatever is in front of you until the momentum dissipates. You cannot stop the tractor quickly simply by engaging the clutch and brakes unless you have one. ORC's can be purchased at any tractor supply. By all means, get one before operating a bushhog.

Be safe,

John A.

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MikeC

03-22-2003 04:48:01

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Re: Re: Re: Dumbest question ever heard on this board in reply to Rob, 03-22-2003 04:04:39

Rob, An ORC is a device that mounts on the end of the tractors PTO shaft. It is a one direction clutch that will not allow the mower to transfer momentum to the tractor. Because of the design of the PTO system, if you are mowing and attempt to stop, the spinning mower blades can act like a large flywheel and even though you have the clutch pushed in, the tractor won't stop because of the backfeed of the mower through the PTO shaft. The ORC freewheels to prevent this. It only allows power to go from the tractor to the mower, not from the mower to the tractor.

third party image

It should be a device like this, about 6-10 inches long that mounts on the very end of the tractors PTO shaft. Make sure you keep it greased!

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03-21-2003 21:20:30

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Re: Dumbest question ever heard on this board in reply to Rob, 03-21-2003 20:55:16

Back the tractor up to the bush hog. Drop the touch control down. Try to line the lift arms up with the pins on the hog's frame. Turn the tractor off. Make sure the PTO selector is full forward. Slide the eyes of the arms over the pins, insert linch pins. If you have a stabilizer arm that goes from under the axle where the fender mounts, hook it up as well. Then attach the top link from the top of the differential to the top of the hog frame. Adjust the top link to take up any slack. Connect the PTO drive shaft to the PTO. It would be best to have an over-running coupler. If you don't have one get one. The tractor shaft is 1-1/8" and the common PTO is 1-3/8". So unless the shaft has been changed, you'll need an ORC that adapts from 1-1/8" to 1-3/8".

Once the hog is hooked up, climb aboard, start the tractor, make sure the position control lever under the right front corner of the seat is in the vertical position, engage the PTO and lift the touch control enough to get the hog off the ground. Don't lift it all the way up until you know the drive shaft is not going to hit the front of the mower deck.

Push the clutch in, disengage the PTO, drive to where you want to mow. Drop the touch control, engage the clutch until the transmission stops turning and you can engage the PTO lever, put it in 1st or 2nd gear, give it 3/4 throttle and let the clutch out slowly until the mower and tractor start to move.

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