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Oil pressure revisited

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Rob N VA

06-30-2003 18:01:29




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A while back someone asked about high oil temperature, and I remarked that I didn't think oil pressure could be too high. Clearly I was wrong. Too high of an oil pressure can ruin seals, but what I do not know is: what is too high? My pressure gadge reads a couple of notches over 50 while warming up and right dead center between the 25 and 50 mark when warm. Does this seem to be in the safe range to you guys? Also, as I have learned, this can blow seals; what would be the first seal to go? What area should I keep an eye on for possible leaks? Thanks a lot for any input!!

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It's not the seals . . .

07-01-2003 08:51:49




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 Re: Oil pressure revisited in reply to Rob N VA, 06-30-2003 18:01:29  
It's not the seals you worry about with too-high oil pressure—it's the bearings. That oil under pressure has gotta go somewhere, and it does—between the mating bearing surfaces. When there is excess pressure the oil is forced through the bearing surfaces at a higher-than-rated velocity which can etch the bearings. There really aren't any seals under oil pressure. Everything at that point is splash lubed. Even the oil filter canister has very little pressure on it.

The oil filter gets its supply through a small orifice which allows only about 15% of the total oil circulation into the filter (it's an 85% bypass system). What oil actually gets into the filter basically drains by gravity back to the governor case. There may be a little pressure on the afferent side of the filter media (depending on the degree of crud in the filter) but the efferent side should be about zero. With that in mind, dirty filters don't really contribute to increased oil pressure either—more oil just gets "bypassed" around the filter.

I wouldn't worry about initial start-up pressures. They may be a little higher for a few minutes, but they shouldn't stay that way for too long.

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Rob

07-01-2003 09:45:49




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 Re: Re: Oil pressure revisited in reply to It's not the seals . . . , 07-01-2003 08:51:49  
The oil filter has the same pressure on it as the gage, comes off the fitting one way to the gage and the other way to the oil filter; gage pressure on the can side of the filter. The return is through an orifice. You have the flow backwards in your head there.



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SteveB

07-01-2003 08:13:48




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 Re: Oil pressure revisited in reply to Rob N VA, 06-30-2003 18:01:29  
Last winter I rebuilt my 8N and installed a new oil pressure relief plunger and spring (from Don B)

When I start the tractor, pressure is about 70 Psi and falls as it warms up. 15 Psi @ idle & 25 psi @ 3/4 throttle when completely warm. Removed the spring and plunger, found nothing unusual, replaced and have not worried about the high pressure when cold since.



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Bob

07-01-2003 00:36:23




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 Re: Oil pressure revisited in reply to Rob N VA, 06-30-2003 18:01:29  
In all reality, I doubt if high oil pressure will have any effect on the "seals" in an 8N tractor. The rear main seal will not be affected by the oil pressure, since there is provision for the excess oil to drain back to the crankcase, and the excess pressure is NOT applied to the seal. The front seal is no where near the pressurized front main bearing, having the timing gear between it and the main bearing.

The worry I would have is extra, unnecessary stress on the oil pump, which is none too robust to begin with.

As far as the gauge fluttering, I am convinced that is due to a replacement gauge lacking an oriface small enough to dampen fluctuations, or the lack of a fitting with some restriction at the gauge connection. I am not sure what the original setup was on these, but normally there is some type of oriface built into the gauge, or the fitting attached to the oil pressure line that dampens the action of the gauge.

(My free opinion- you get what you pay for!)

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Rob

06-30-2003 18:34:58




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 Re: Oil pressure revisited in reply to Rob N VA, 06-30-2003 18:01:29  
The guys that designed and built that tractor put a relief valve in there that is suppose to blow off at 35psi. To my way of thinking that is the maximum allowable oil pressure because they said. Seems clear as a bell to me.
I'm sure there are going to be an assorment of strangers on the internet tell you different, believe what you want.
Looking at the oil circuit you will see that the entire oil filter can and it's lines are under pressure. The gasket and the fittings have to hold at just slightly less then the gage pressure. The lid gasket and lid bolt are on the high-pressure side of the filter.
It looks as though the rear main might possibly see some pressure from the rear main journal but I don't know if that's true or if it's anyway possible the main will see anything like the full pressure on the journal. It wouldn't surprise me if the rear main didn't see any oil pressure and I don't see that the front main can see any pump pressure either. The mains are not in the lube circuit and they should see crankcase pressure.
If the gage reads 35psi the relief valve is relieving at some pressure higher then 35psi or there is some other problem keeping the pressure up.

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dan shu

06-30-2003 19:05:05




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 Re: Re: Oil pressure revisited in reply to Rob, 06-30-2003 18:34:58  
my 51 8n is 20 at idle and 45-50 at full throtle
always been this way for 10 years i had it...



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Rob

06-30-2003 19:16:28




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 Re: Re: Re: Oil pressure revisited in reply to dan shu, 06-30-2003 19:05:05  
Yeah, I hear from guys all the time about pressure in excess of 35psi. Seems to be fairly common. Doesn't change the FACT that Ford went to the time and expense to design and install a 35psi relief valve and not a 45-50psi relief valve. Remaining FACT is that if you are operating at 45-50psi the relief valve is not functioning as designed...it's broken some kind of way. Anyone can ignore that fact.
Like I might ignore the fact that my starter button interlock works ONLY if the shifter is in 2nd or R and does not work if the shifter is in 1st or 3rd.

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Nevermind-Found in archiv

06-30-2003 18:18:47




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 Re: Oil pressure revisited in reply to Rob N VA, 06-30-2003 18:01:29  
Handy things those archives!! If you have any input, I am still open to comment. The needle on my Gadge is vibrating rapidly, and I am getting concerned. Still good pressure, just vibrates back and forth rapidly. Sorry for the wasted post, just didn't see what I was looking for in the archives at first. ----Rob



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