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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum

6 or 12 volt??

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B. Jones

12-21-2003 07:38:21

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I've got a 2 n with the one wire generator, which seems to work ok. I've thought about changing it over to 12 because I have the alternator and I know how to do it. I do turn up the generator if I run much with the headlights. I wish it had a voltage regulator to control the output, but I can deal with turning it up and back. Do most people change them over because of the high cost of generator repairs and to be able to jump from a 12 volt? It has been working so good, I just hate to change it.

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buck

12-21-2003 10:44:29

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Re: 6 or 12 volt?? in reply to B. Jones, 12-21-2003 07:38:21

By the late 50's Ford had figured out that 12V was the way to go and by the early 60's GM had eliminated the voltage regulator and had alternators producing 50+ amps and a few years later Chrysler gave us electronic Ignition. Next time you let the smoke out of half of the electronics in your late model vehicle while jump starting that 6V ask yourself which is better.

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Bruce (VA)

12-21-2003 08:58:55

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Re: 6 or 12 volt?? in reply to B. Jones, 12-21-2003 07:38:21

You're getting lots of good advice here, most of it adding up to "leave well enough alone"! I'll add my thoughts along the same line; I've got 3 N's, all 6 volt, and that is how they will stay as long as I have them. The 2 that are kept outside in the pole barn started yesterday at 25 degrees, with no problem. Last winter, I started one at 5 degrees. If you use the 1 or 2 gauge cables, clean all connections bright & shiny twice a year and keep the tractor tuned & battery charged, 6 volts will work every time.

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Rob N VA

12-21-2003 08:27:40

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Re: 6 or 12 volt?? in reply to B. Jones, 12-21-2003 07:38:21

I also think "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I would guesstimate that at least 60 percent of the posts I read here are from someone having trouble with their 12 volt conversion. This past summer my genny fried and took out the Voltage regulator with it, as well as every wire in between. I replaced the Voltage regulator (30 bucks), and had the genny overhauled for 50 bucks. I also rewired the whole thing with some heavy gauge wire I had in the shop, and some shrink tubes over the soldered and crimped connectors (which I think is better than the wiring harnesses you can buy) So for under 100 bucks (and some help from the kind folks here) I have a brand new electrical system, that works great, and probably will for several years. As for my headlights, I think they are plenty bright for what I do. Like everyone else here has said in the past, if you think you need 12 volts because your tractor is hard to start, it probably needs help in other areas. Also, by the time you convert to 12 volts, you could have totally reworked your 6 volt electrical system, and have it working great.
The other day here is central Virginia it was 26 degrees by the thermometer in my garage. I wanted to see how hard it would be to start the 8n, because I haven't started it up in about 3 weeks. I went out to the shed, pulled the choke, set the throttle, turned the key, and she fired off on about the second spin of the motor...all on 6 volts. Your decision to convert to 12 volts is up to you, but I am not the only guy that is satisfied with a 6 volt system. ---Rob (a 6 volt advocate for the right reasons!! :)

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Dell (WA)

12-21-2003 08:16:22

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Re: 6 or 12 volt?? in reply to B. Jones, 12-21-2003 07:38:21

Jonesy..... .....Most people change to 12 volts for the faster turning effect of 12 volts on a 6 volt starter because they are having trouble starting a worn and tired engine. Its a bandaid that works for a while.

The worst reason to convert to 12 volts is because "Bubba" down at the local spittin'-n-whittlin' watterin' spot sez: "its da thang to do, yep, thang to do" and pulls 'nutter swig onnna his barleypop.

You do know that "fun projects" (check archives) has a real 6 volt transistorized solidstate Voltage Regulator built-in to a roundcan cut-off relay replacement, don't you? Only problem is, you're still stuck with the OEM 6 volt 11 amp genny. It works good and makes the battery last longer.

Remember the 6 volt MANTRA: "keep'em clean, bright, and tight" and don't be fer using enny of them tharr wimpy ferrin made starter cables. Gettcha some 'arry chested 'merricun made one-ought (1/0) thick as yer thumb battery cables..... .....respectfully, Dell

A 12 volt advocate for the right reasons, that said, I haven't found the right reason for my eazy starting 6 volt 8N, and I know how to do it right the first time.

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Er....uh.....Jack

12-21-2003 11:14:28

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Re: Re: 6 or 12 volt?? in reply to Dell (WA), 12-21-2003 08:16:22

Why is it that the rest of the world switched to 12 volt? why is my Ford F-150 12 volt and not still 6 volt??

I keep hearing you say time and time and tim again about not switchin to 12 volt, maybe you can talk GM, Ford , Chrysler and the rest that 12 volt is bad and 6 volt is best? LOL!

Thanks and Merry xmas/xwife
Jack

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Stumpy

12-21-2003 16:30:12

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Re: Re: Re: 6 or 12 volt?? in reply to Er....uh.....Jack, 12-21-2003 11:14:28

The reason auto and truck makers have switched to 12volts is space!!!!! If you look at voltage as pressure and amperage as flow(all things viewed as water) It takes a larger hose(cable) to flow 100 amps with 6 volts than 12 volts(more pressure). The electrical demands of todays vehicles with there onboard computers, hundreds of lights and acc, and motors all drawing on the charging/ electrical system would overwhelm 6 volts. The cables and batteries would need to be so large that cost/ economy would suffer. The industry is leaning towards a jump to 36 or 48 volts now to combat the ever increasing demands on our electrical systems. Here is where I would like to tie this all together, The N series tractors are S I M P L E, the demand on electrical systems is minimal, so the six volt system(when properly maintained) is sufficiant to start, run, and illuminate your N. I just finished the overhaul of my electrical system, and am incredibly impressed with the results from my EZ startin' 6 volt 9N. Stumpy, a six or 12 or even 36-48 volt advocate in the right application

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and==bj/8n/mt

12-21-2003 11:55:52

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Re: Re: Re: 6 or 12 volt?? in reply to Er....uh.....Jack, 12-21-2003 11:14:28

If they were to go back to 120 cubic inch engines with 6.5 to one compression and no electronics other than ignition bet you last dollar they would go back to six volts for the same reason they went to idiot lights--save five bucks a unit and it turns into real money.

When did twelve volts come along? When engines got over two hundred fifty cubic inches and factory air conditioning became available.

Why is forty two volts on the horizon? Cause you need a t.v. repair man or an exorcist to fix the electronics that tell the engine how to get thirty two mpg and tell you how many miles of gas are left and what the outside air temp is.

If you need to plug in your cell phone or run a boom box then by all means convert. But why stop at twelve volts--Detroit won't.

Your mileage may vary

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DallasGa ,Ha bj/8N

12-21-2003 14:22:04

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Re: Re: Re: Re: 6 or 12 volt?? in reply to and==bj/8n/mt, 12-21-2003 11:55:52

You forgot about the DVD player, flat screen display, heated seats, and remote diagnosics. Oh ya, and the thrid seat A/C.

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yep==bj/8n/mt

12-21-2003 14:43:57

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 6 or 12 volt?? in reply to DallasGa ,Ha bj/8N, 12-21-2003 14:22:04

Definitely a brave new world out there.

One of the local car rental stores here in Montana sent me out to get a mini van that wouldn't start in the cold for a customer. Found a cell phone on a charger plugged into one power port and a DVD player still running but making very little noise plugged into the other. Wonder how the battery got to the place it wouldn't fire it up.

YOur mileage may vary

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uh . . . Dell (WA)

12-21-2003 11:35:36

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Re: Re: Re: 6 or 12 volt?? in reply to Er....uh.....Jack, 12-21-2003 11:14:28

Jack..... ..the question should by why 6 volts? The answer is: cheapest battery that would reliably turn the starter motor for the FIRST electric start car 1909 Cadillac by guess? General Motors.

And the reason for 12 volts? TRANSISTOR RADIO's. The first transistorized radios had germanium power transistor that needed 12 volts to operate the audio amplifier. A salesgimmic. Altho, the high compression V-8 horsepower race needed more starter umph too. 'nutter salesgimmic.

Now they're predicting 42 volts for "tomorrow's cars", saving on copper wire and microprocessors requirements. Dunno if'n it'll happen 'cuz 42 volts can cause major human muscle control problems..... ....respectfully, Dell

A 12 volt advocate for the right reason

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Upper Peninsula, Mich

12-21-2003 08:15:21

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Re: 6 or 12 volt?? in reply to B. Jones, 12-21-2003 07:38:21

B.Jones. It is possible to install a Voltage Regulator on your tractor.I had it done on my 9N several years ago. I had the generator in for repairs and asked the fellow if it was possible. He said he had done it a few times and if I wanted it done, the only extra cost would be the regulator. I replaced the regulator about a year ago, other than that it has worked great for several years. Good luck and Happy Holidays. Ron

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John Webb

12-21-2003 08:22:37

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Re: Re: 6 or 12 volt?? in reply to Upper Peninsula, Mich, 12-21-2003 08:15:21

Hey B. You can also jump your 6V with a 12V, by hooking the cables directly to the starter solinod and ground. Be sure you have the polarity correct(neg. cable to starter, pos. to ground)

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roger '40 9n

12-21-2003 17:39:58

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Re: Re: Re: 6 or 12 volt?? in reply to John Webb, 12-21-2003 08:22:37

To be safe you should jump directly to the big stud connector on the starter. One wire to the starter the other to a ground on the tractor.
I use a foot peg on my 9n. Polarity does not
matter -- the starter will turn the same way
with either polarity. Be very sure that the
tractor is in neutral since you are bypassing the
neutral safety interlock. Do NOT hit the starter button so you do not get twelve volts to yur
battery. You need to have the ignition switch
on and enuf power in the tractor battery to run the spark.

Roger in Michigan

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careful there==bj/8n/mt

12-21-2003 08:40:33

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Re: Re: Re: 6 or 12 volt?? in reply to John Webb, 12-21-2003 08:22:37

While I am sure you know to hook to the starter side of the solenoid rather than the battery side I write to make sure somebody else doesn't hook up to the wrong [battery] side and make toast. You also need enough battery left to power the ignition.

Also, for goodness sake double check to make sure the tractor is in neutral since starting this way defeats the neutral interlock. Tractors starting in gear were third in tractor injuries and fatalities beat out only by roll overs and PTO and auger drives.

Your mileage may vary

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John Webb

12-21-2003 08:53:34

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Re: Re: Re: Re: 6 or 12 volt?? in reply to careful there==bj/8n/mt, 12-21-2003 08:40:33

bj, I know not to hook to the "starter" side, the solinod doesn't care if there 6V or 12V, that's why it doesnt have to be replaced to convert to 12V. And yes you right about hooking to the Starter side of the solinod, it by passes the switch and starter botton, which makes it a bad idea.

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huh?==bj/8n/mt

12-21-2003 08:59:57

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 6 or 12 volt?? in reply to John Webb, 12-21-2003 08:53:34

Now I am confused. Definitely hook to the starter side or to the starter post.

If you hook to the battery side of the solenoid you doing the same as hooking direct to the six volt battery. The hot battery cable goes direct from there to the battery. Putting twelve volts on a six volt battery isn't healthy for batteries for by standers or for other living things and may even do in a six volt unprotected coil.

Your mileage may vary

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Bob - MI

12-21-2003 07:58:21

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Re: 6 or 12 volt?? in reply to B. Jones, 12-21-2003 07:38:21

I have a 2N also and it still has a 6-volt system. I have no problems at all with it but like you have considered going to 12V. The only real reson for me is that I don't currently have lights on it and the choices (aftermarket) are wider in 12V than with 6V. After I thought about this I reasoned that it simply wasn't worth it to switch. You will find lots of discussion in the archives about 6/12 but the counclusion is usually "if it aint broke, don't fix it".

Good luck with your decision

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