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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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COMPRESSION CHECK TIPS

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BOB G (TEXAS)

12-27-2003 15:27:37




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I would like to do a compression check on my 9N engine but I have never done one before. Can someone please give me some tips on how to do it. Would I buy the gauges at Sears or is some other place cheaper? Do you keep the engine running when you do the test or do you just crank it with the starter? Any tips that you can provide would be greatly appreciated.




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Leroy

12-28-2003 06:17:05




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 Re: COMPRESSION CHECK TIPS in reply to BOB G (TEXAS), 12-27-2003 15:27:37  
I am not that much of a mechanic but I do know that the instructions that come with a compression gauage or timing light are written for the auto market on motors that do not have goveners on, my gauage I would have to take the hood and gas tank off so that I could get it to the spark plug hole and hold it in while some one else would handle the starter, it is the push against a rubber seal type and takes 2 hands to hold it tight, also in a resesed type plug hole it will not work

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Comp Gauge Cap-ID

12-28-2003 12:19:28




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 Re: Re: COMPRESSION CHECK TIPS in reply to Leroy, 12-28-2003 06:17:05  
Bob - Next time you replace your Comp Gauge look for one of these -- Various companies offer a compression gauge that utilize an adaptor shaped much like a spark plug, it SCREWS into the plug hole in the head, and is connected to the gauge using a flexible tube. To use it you just screw the plug-like part (adaptor) into the hole, screw the connecting tube onto it, lay the gauge on the head and take your reading "hands free". It produces a more accurate reading because no leakage from the hole past the adaptor. Most good automotive tool stores have them. --Cap--

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buck

12-27-2003 21:11:17




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 Re: COMPRESSION CHECK TIPS in reply to BOB G (TEXAS), 12-27-2003 15:27:37  

I am going to differ with everything said thus far except the part about open throttle and open choke. All plugs out and ignition off with compression gauge held so that you can observe readings. First stroke is most important stroke and should be say 50+. this tells you the condition of yor valves as low reading indicates open or non seated valve on comp. stroke. Next stroke should put you at or above the 90 mark. If this is the case you can quit and be satisfied that you have a good starting, adequate compresssion engine which will produce adequate power if well tuned. If you have to add oil to get 90 on 5 strokes then the engine needs attention. Now if you want a true reading as to what the engine is producing while running then pull one plug at a time and check the first stroke as the engine runs on 3 cylinders. This still isn't a true reading as the cylinder being checked is also not fireing. The 5 6 or howmany strokes is an attempt to see how much total compression the cylinder will hold under operating conditions but the cylinder only gets one chance to do that before ignition raises it to or above the max that your gauge told you. Like others have said,most gauges will come with instructions and those instructions will tell you basically what the others have said.

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George Willer

12-28-2003 08:14:32




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 Re: Re: COMPRESSION CHECK TIPS in reply to buck, 12-27-2003 21:11:17  
Buck,

I'll differ with you because your lengthy explanation will be misleading to many... mostly because it is wrong. The reason the reading increases with each stroke is because of the equipment itself. It is because the displacement of the measuring equipment is added to the combustion chamber displacement. Each stroke begins with that extra displacement at the pressure of the previous stroke. After 4 to 6 strokes that difference is very small and the reading will not rise higher with 50 strokes.

One thing that should be mentioned is that the absolute maximum reading is much less important than the comparitive readings between cylinders. There are simply too many variables that affect absolute readings. Ambient temperature, altitude, starter condition, battery voltage, oil weight, cylinder deposits, equipment used, gauge calibration, etc.

I recently took 8 sets of readings on the same engine (not Ford) using the same equipment. Wet/dry/hot/cold/throttle wide open/throttle partially open, in various combinations. The max readings varied widely but the relative readings were similar. The best cylinder gave high readings from 82 to 136. The engine will get rings.

George Willer

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Jerry/MT

12-27-2003 18:29:17




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 Re: COMPRESSION CHECK TIPS in reply to BOB G (TEXAS), 12-27-2003 15:27:37  
Also make sure the throttle is wide open and the choke is off.



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Roland (AL)

12-27-2003 16:16:03




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 Re: COMPRESSION CHECK TIPS in reply to BOB G (TEXAS), 12-27-2003 15:27:37  
Any auto parts will have them, should be about the same price as sears, not to costly anywhere. If the tractor runs warm it up to operating tempture. Then be sure the troctor is turned off, pull the plugs, screw the gauge in the plug hole, turn the motor over with the starter at least 5 times, more want hurt. After you write the compression # down put 1 teaspoon of oil in that cylinder and do it again. This is the dry, wet test. write these # down. Always dry then wet. Do this to each cylinder. This will tell you what condition your engine is in.

Later Roland (AL)

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Dell (WA)

12-27-2003 16:07:49




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 Re: COMPRESSION CHECK TIPS in reply to BOB G (TEXAS), 12-27-2003 15:27:37  
Bob..... ...would you believe that compression gauges come with instructions?

1) remove all the sparkies so its eazier to turn over with starter motor
2) jamb or screw the rubber end into the sparkie hole under test
3) crank with the starter motor at least 5 puffs
4) write the highest number down
5) after testing all the cylinders, evaluate the results

If checking a worn engine, take a 2nd reading with a squirt of oil (about 1 oz or teaspoonfull) down the sparkie hole to seal the rings, this will evaluate the condition of the piston rings and the exhaust valves. if'n reading goes up more than 20 psi, worn rings, if'n reading goes up just a little bitt, leaky/burned exhaust valve; if'n 2 adjacent cylinders are low, blown headgasket

N-Ford flathead specs: 90 psi min (dry)..... ..respectfully, Dell

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AZ Jack

12-27-2003 19:51:22




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 Re: Re: COMPRESSION CHECK TIPS in reply to Dell (WA), 12-27-2003 16:07:49  
Dell-what would you expect difference in a dry and wet reading on an engine with some wear but all other things equal, such as normal ring-valve wear on all cylinders. Thanks, Jack



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Dell (WA)

12-28-2003 01:06:16




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 Re: Re: Re: COMPRESSION CHECK TIPS in reply to AZ Jack, 12-27-2003 19:51:22  
Jack..... ...normally a good engine "wet" will be about +10 psi over "dry. A tired engine in need of a re-build will be about +30 psi over dry..... ....Dell



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paul

12-28-2003 05:49:49




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: COMPRESSION CHECK TIPS in reply to Dell (WA), 12-28-2003 01:06:16  
A "good" engine wet should have No difference in compression.FIRE IN THE HOLE!!!



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Bob

12-27-2003 17:32:17




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 Re: Re: COMPRESSION CHECK TIPS in reply to Dell (WA), 12-27-2003 16:07:49  
#1A... Be sure igntion switch is off, and make sure the throttle is wide open before beginning.



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Rob Mo.

12-27-2003 20:51:42




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 Re: Re: Re: COMPRESSION CHECK TIPS in reply to Bob, 12-27-2003 17:32:17  
Couple question that I have gathered from reading ya'lls follow up. #1- What is the purpose of hold the throttle wide open? 2#(This one is for you Dell) Why 90psi, round here, we look for 125psi. While I'm on the subject how do you convert psi to compression ratio? Some of the other stuff ya'll wrote makes sense. These to need more of an explanation to me.



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Dell (WA)

12-28-2003 00:56:44




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: COMPRESSION CHECK TIPS in reply to Rob Mo., 12-27-2003 20:51:42  
Rob..... ...90 psi min (dry) is Ford's spec for their 6:1 CR flathead N-Engine.

Since I recommend you pull ALL the sparkplugs before you start your compression tests and since the carb throttle plate is closed by the governor, there is no advantage to holding the N-Throttle open for compression tests, but you can if'n you want to. On engines that you don't pull the sparkies, then yes, you do need to open the carb throttle to allow maximum suck thru the carb.

How to convert compression ratio to compression psi? Since air weighs about 14.7 psi, multiply by CR and add 1 atmosphere. ...ie... 6 X 14.7 = 88.2 + 14.7 = 102.9 psi.

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Cap-in ID

12-27-2003 23:34:24




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: COMPRESSION CHECK TIPS in reply to Rob Mo., 12-27-2003 20:51:42  
Rob -- Compression ratio is the ratio that exists between total volume of a cylinder plus combustion chamber volume and the volume remaining (combustion chamber volume) when the piston is at top dead center. For example: if you have a volume of 500 cc, including the combustion chamber in the head, when the piston is at bottom dead center and you have a volume of 62.5 cc remaining when the piston is at top dead center then 500 divided by 62.5 = 8.0 Your compression RATIO is 8 to 1. If you decide to raise the compression ratio by milling the head and thereby reduceing the remaining cumbustion chamber volume at T.D.C. to, say, 55.5 cc you will end up with a compression ratio 9.0 to 1 (500 divided by 55.5 = 9.009) Compression Ratio is also often expressed as "swept volume" divided by "remaining volume". You always block the throttle wide open when doing comp. tests in order to allow the maximum amount of air to enter the cylinder. For a number of reasons (design factors) "cylinder filling" is not complete during one intake stroke --- this is also why you crank the engine over five or six times per each cylinder test. Watch the gage needle while cranking and you will see it reach a max reading and not go any higher even if you continue cranking. That high is your reading for that cylinder. The reason for pulling all the spark plugs BEFORE testing any of the cylinders is so that you have the same cranking speed for each cylinder tested. -- Cap --

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Bob

12-27-2003 21:06:29




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: COMPRESSION CHECK TIPS in reply to Rob Mo., 12-27-2003 20:51:42  
Most service manuals state to check the compression with the throttle open. I assume that is because if the throttle plate is closed, it restricts the airflow somewhat, even at cranking speed, and probably reduces cylinder filling, and therefore compression, to at least some degree.

The other reason I could think of to be sure the throttle is fully open is to ensure repeatability of your compression test results. If you were to take a compression test and record the readings for comparison later, and happened to have the throttle wide open for the test, and then at a later date, took another test, and happened to have the throttle closed, your readings might be a little less, even though there was no change in the engine. By making it a point to be sure the throttle is wide open for every test, you remove that variable from your recorded test results.

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