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Interesting question

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Rob N VA

12-28-2003 06:55:22

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I just read a post from Rich - UT concerning his carb making a "doodle" on the floor. I have never been in the habit of shutting the gas off after I shut the engine off, and never had a problem. Should I expect to have a problem someday? Dosen't the carb float manage this problem, and if so, will it eventually wear out to the point of surprising me like what happened to Rich? Thanks for any feedback--Rob

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duey

12-28-2003 21:32:19

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Re: Interesting question in reply to Rob N VA, 12-28-2003 06:55:22

Rob, I think one of the more interesting things I've read on the board lately about carb troubles was someone found their carb was leaking internally past the *seat gasket*.... that equates to bypassing the needle and float ... everything. Changing the float setting or level didn't help...only tightening the seat firmly did it.... Interesting thought anyway. duey

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North of Fargo

12-28-2003 17:34:42

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Re: Interesting question in reply to Rob N VA, 12-28-2003 06:55:22

Ours never leaked, was never shut off. Started running funny, pulled the intake hose off the carb and gas poured out. Tried rebuild kit, no luck, seemed to be seeping around the gasket somehow. Tried new gasket again, another new needle and seat, new float, no luck. Read about the "mystery" gasket (throttle shaft seal) on the board yesterday. Hadn't put it in on initial rebuild. So far so good. Thinking maybe the carb needs a good air tight seal not to leak. May change the main needle also as it's a bit loose. The other symptom before it ever leaked was the idle screw could be shut down & still ran fine. Hope this cures that too.
Will always shut off gas now, the tank is above the intake and you can get gas in your oil.

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Jerry Ward

12-28-2003 17:03:40

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Re: Interesting question in reply to Rob N VA, 12-28-2003 06:55:22

Does anyone shut off the fuel with the engine running and let it run the gas out of the carb? Should the carb have gas in it to keep things from drying out?

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Rich - UT

12-28-2003 17:54:14

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Re: Re: Interesting question in reply to Jerry Ward, 12-28-2003 17:03:40

Jerry, I usually shut the fuel off while the engine is running and let it run for 1 - 2 minutes but not until she starves for gas. I figure this will keep the carb from flooding from what is left in the fuel line.

Just my habit.

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Jim

12-28-2003 11:50:51

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Re: Interesting question in reply to Rob N VA, 12-28-2003 06:55:22

At some time in the past someone posted a description of a solenoid valve mounted in the fuel feed line which would shut off when the ignition was turned off. I don't remember whether it was 6 or 12 volt unit. I think it was for some type of fork lift. I would be interested if some one could give a complete description and part #.

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Keith (OR)

12-30-2003 21:32:58

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Re: Re: Interesting question in reply to Jim, 12-28-2003 11:50:51

Hey Jim, checked my 1 ton, there is not any identification at all on the gas shut off solenoid. Yoou should beable to go to your local propane distributor and get the info. That is where I got the change over for my truck. Or you could use the electric solenoid for dual tanks, just put a vacuum plug cap over the primary input and use the secondary,one that is closed untill you apply 12volts.

wish everyone a Happy New Year

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Keith (OR)

12-28-2003 19:54:27

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Re: Re: Interesting question in reply to Jim, 12-28-2003 11:50:51

Jim, I have one on my 1980 ford F350. It is used to shut off the gas when I switch over to propane,it is 12 volt and I do not remember the brand name at this moment. But when I go out to the other Place where I have my F350 will see if there is any info on it for you.

Have a great day

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Rich - UT

12-28-2003 10:29:10

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Re: Interesting question in reply to Rob N VA, 12-28-2003 06:55:22

Rob, I inherited this tractor from my wife's grandpa. The word from him was that the gas should always be shut off or the carb would flood. Like you I thought that was the floats job, but then again I wasn't accustomed to dealing with gravity flow carbs.

I rebuilt the carb a year ago, but have always (grin) shut off the valve when not in use. Guess I really know the importance of shutting it off now.

As a side note to my previous post about the leaking gas problem. I checked my oil this morning on the old 8n and detected a strong odor of gas so out came the oil. I hope to have her all fixed up today and will try starting her again. I will keep you all posted.

From my own experience on this, it is such a simple thing to close the valve, especially when considering all the potential problems you will avoid by doing so. CLOSE THE VALVE!

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Stick

12-29-2003 21:12:53

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Re: Re: Interesting question in reply to Rich - UT, 12-28-2003 10:29:10

It's no different than the gravity feed system that motorcycles use. Anybody that rode older bikes will usually shut the petcock off by habit. On my old Harleys, I shut it off each and every time i shut the engine down, even if it's only for a gas stop. The needle is the only thing stopping the crankcase from filling with fuel, and there's no drain plug to get rid of it (dry sump). So it's just perfecly natural for me to do the same on the tractor, knowing it's gravity feed as well. I never even thought about it, just saw a petcock and used it, from the day I bought the thing.

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RJ-AZ

12-28-2003 08:06:01

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Re: Interesting question in reply to Rob N VA, 12-28-2003 06:55:22

When I was a kid a looong time ago my dad taught me to turn off the gas at the end of the day. This was on an 8-n, Farmall H and a DC Case. On gravity tank systems there is always some head pressure on the needle and seat.

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Gaspump

12-28-2003 08:02:58

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Re: Interesting question in reply to Rob N VA, 12-28-2003 06:55:22

Todays gasolines are also guilty. Have had the gas itself erode the seat in the shutoff valve and excess varnish from the gas will quickly gum the needle and seat in a very short span of weeks. Additives such as StaBil help but will not cure all. Be safe, shut the fuel off.

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Bob

12-28-2003 08:59:21

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Re: Re: Interesting question in reply to Gaspump, 12-28-2003 08:02:58

I remember as a kid in the early 60's being around our 8N Ford, VA case, and several of the larger Green gas burners. I think at one time or another they all had a hissy fit and dumped their gas out overnight through the carb. It's not just today's gas. All it takes is a little piece of crud to get between the needle and the seat. Gasoline is very thin and leaky stuff, and it doesn't take much of a leak to drain out 5 or 10 gallons over the period of a day or two. In most cases, you'll refill with gas, and the piece of crud will often pass with no disassembly or repairs needed.

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Gaspump

12-28-2003 15:06:27

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Re: Re: Re: Interesting question in reply to Bob, 12-28-2003 08:59:21

Yes I agree particles in the tank are the main cause of float needle seepage and/or sticking. My point is that gasolines of late have a propensity to eat up metal parts such as the fuel shut off valves. Also, they now have an unusually high concentration of varnish or lacquer, another big problem, causes the needle valve to stick open or closed. I never had problems like these till at least the mid 90's. Check with your local fuel injection repair shop and they will tell you about the excessive wear and tear todays fuels cause to injector systems.

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Bruce (VA)

12-28-2003 07:19:16

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Re: Interesting question in reply to Rob N VA, 12-28-2003 06:55:22

Rob, I've got 3 N's, and I always shut the gas off on them. My '51 was the worst offender until I rebuilt the carb. The front mount '50 will leak now & again, but not to the point of rebuilding the carb. The problem is that this is a gravity feed carb; one little bit of varnish or trash on that needle valve, and the least of your worries will be a puddle on the garage floor. It is indeed possible, with a full tank of gas and a good seal on the breather hose, to actually get gasoline into the cylinders & crankcase. I had A model Fords as a kid and always learned to shut off the gas on them, so it's just a natural carry over to the N's for me.

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O.T. Cap-in ID

12-28-2003 11:39:41

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Re: Re: Interesting question in reply to Bruce (VA), 12-28-2003 07:19:16

Bruce, weren't those "A"s great ! ! Here's a bit of trivia -- Those being the days when there were still "gentlemen", Henry designed a feature into the floor mounted gearshift lever on the "A"s which allowed a "lady" to enter and seat herself more decorously. Prior to dismounting the vehicle to hold the door for the lady, the gentleman lifted straight up on the gearshift lever and rotated it 90 degrees or so. (it was spring loaded) This allowed the lady to enter and seat herself without having to deal with skirts and gearshifts. After the lady was seated the gentleman would return to the drivers' position, rotate the gearshift back to it's normal position where it would just snap into place and off they would go. A courteous bit of engineering. --Cap--

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Bruce (VA)

12-28-2003 17:49:19

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Re: Re: Re: Interesting question in reply to O.T. Cap-in ID, 12-28-2003 11:39:41

A mystery of 40 years solved! Always wondered why they did that! I also heard that because of the manual spark & manual fuel mixture features of the A Model engine that they would pass all EPA clean air regs! Probably would pass the crash test also.....

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Rick

12-28-2003 07:04:21

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Re: Interesting question in reply to Rob N VA, 12-28-2003 06:55:22

i leave mine open also. I may be wrong but I always figured the float does the job the same way it does on my truck and it doesn't have a cut off valve. I guess closing it each time is extra insurance but then again my truck doesn't have it.

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Chuck A

12-28-2003 07:30:34

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Re: Re: Interesting question in reply to Rick, 12-28-2003 07:04:21

Rick, your truck tank is lower than the carb. It can't cause the carb to leak when the truck is not running. The N's have a tank above....oh forget it.

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dumb me-- Rick

12-28-2003 12:20:18

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Re: Re: Re: Interesting question in reply to Chuck A , 12-28-2003 07:30:34

The moment I read "gravity feed" the light bulb came on. I will go out right now and close that valve.

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Bruce (VA)

12-28-2003 07:28:07

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Re: Re: Interesting question in reply to Rick, 12-28-2003 07:04:21

Rick, I don't know what kind of truck you have, but my guess is that it has a gas tank lower than the carb, and a fuel pump, unlike the N. So, no gas is going to drain past your float in your truck.....assuming your truck has a carb!

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