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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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Sputtering all the time

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Rob in VA

01-29-2004 12:16:21




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The old tractor did the work I needed from her, but she still is not running very well. A month ago, she would run fine for 30 minutes and then start to sputterin and eventually quit, but would start right back up but continue to sputter and backfire something terrible. Well on Dell's advise I bought a new coil and still had the problems. On my own advise, I bought a new zenith carb and again had the same problem, but this time it sputters and backfires from the beggining but does not quit. At a week ago, she was sputterin/backfirein a lot as I worked her, then all of a sudden she worked great for 30 minutes. Shut her off thinkin it was the gas treatment I put in the tank, but then this weekend I started her up again (first time hard starting, probably due to the cold) and she ran great for 10 minutes, then back to her old sputterin/backfirin self again. In fact, she has backfired so much it has blown a hole in my tail pipe right at the 90 degree bend and I have noticed my manifold has several leaks in it, but can't tell if it is just gasket problem or a crack. I noticed this after Dell told me it might be a crack between the exhaust and intake manifold. So, I have ordered a new tail pipe, manifold and gaskets and will put on this weekend. I sure hope this solves the problem because I have a lot of work to do with the old girl and sputterin/backfirein around the place is just not cuttin it.

So after this weekend the old 9N will have the following:
New Coil
New Plugs
New Wires
New Carb
New Distributor
New Rotar
New Points
New Cutoff
New Ignition
New Manifold
New Exhaust

The only thing I have not check is the compression, due to the fact that I am praying it is not that because that is a big job that I am not sure I am up to..... but if this dosn't work, I am going to creep up on her to check the compression....
thanks for all the help that you all provide, I would still be looking at her in the garage if it wasn't for y'all

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Vic

01-29-2004 16:40:30




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 Re: Sputtering all the time in reply to Rob in VA, 01-29-2004 12:16:21  
I have a Zenith on an 8N and it works great. Previously had installed a rebuilt Marvel Shevler (original style that I saved) and still couldn't get it to idle perfectly. Check your points mounting plate. I had the same problem with my father's 9N. Check where the condenser wire and points are held by the screw in the plate. This one had started to ground out but would only do it occasionally. Changed the plate finally and no more problems.

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stumpy

01-29-2004 15:48:52




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 Re: Sputtering all the time in reply to Rob in VA, 01-29-2004 12:16:21  
Rob, Please do me a favor and remove your needle valve seat and look, and I mean look under over in and behind it along with the needle itself for any kind of junk that could have migrated from the tank or fuel lines. I am not going to say that is your problem, but I had a similar problem. No power/carb flooding within 2 mins. of shutting the engine off. Turned out a tiny little piece of something looking like a hair was causing the needle not to seat or open properly. Does sound more like electrical problem like Dell says, but never hurts to look.

Best of luck :)
stumpy

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Dell (WA)

01-29-2004 13:50:08




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 Re: Sputtering all the time in reply to Rob in VA, 01-29-2004 12:16:21  
Rob..... ...sputtern' backfirin' is generally a sign of sick ignition NOT a sick carb, but Zeniths don't have that great of reputation.

As I read your list, the only thing missing was a new ignition switch. $7 cheap. Gunked up ignition switch contacts can be jumpered around by a pre-made electrical wire with alligator clippies on each end. It generally takes about 15 minutes for a BAD ignition switch to go bad and "cures" itself over cold nite.

One of the founding N-Board Members used to claim that 80% of all Carb problems were solved in the ignition system..... ..... Dell

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Al

01-29-2004 14:19:27




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 Re: Re: Sputtering all the time in reply to Dell (WA), 01-29-2004 13:50:08  
You were wrong about the coil, why should we believe you about the ignition switch?



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HEY AL Cap-in ID

01-30-2004 12:12:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Sputtering all the time in reply to Al, 01-29-2004 14:19:27  
Evil Steve and souNdguy are being nice, trying not to offend. Me, I'm older than most all of you and I tend to be crotchity, and sometimes I just get fed up with the obtuse, antagonistic nature of some people. If your question was actually meant in good faith I apologize in advance, but consider this -- the advice is free, it's based on a lifetimes' experience for many of us, and if you are a follower of this boards' activity you'll know that the "success ratio" is a whole lot better than most. So, whether you choose to believe or not is up to you, I for one, really don't give a dam_. Read it if you want, believe it if you want, or look for answers somewhere else. Who cares ??
--Cap-- (and yes, I did have my coffee this morning)

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um Al... Evil Steve

01-30-2004 08:47:34




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 Re: Re: Re: Sputtering all the time in reply to Al, 01-29-2004 14:19:27  
Al,

So many things can contribute to a poor performing N. Sometimes the only way to track a problem down is by looking at everything - including things you'd never suspect. I've experienced 2 "weird, how'd that happen?" ignition problems both of which took me a whole lotta time to find and I'm pretty dern good with these tractors.

Dell's suggestions to check the coil and the ignition switch are well within the normal things to check. From hundreds or thousands of miles away, it is difficult to nail down "THE" problem from a short description the first time. I'm not defending Dell specifically, but all of us who try to assist people who need help with their tractors. Sometimes we get it right the first time, sometimes we don't. When we don't get it right we take no pleasure in sending someone on a wild goose chase.

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souNdguy

01-30-2004 09:11:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Sputtering all the time in reply to um Al... Evil Steve, 01-30-2004 08:47:34  
Ditto.

That 'coil' and 'key' switch check is way at the top of the trouble shooting list. Easy to check, and alot easier to replace than tearing into other more expensive things first.. like replacement carbs, etc.

Like Evil Steve & Dell pointed out. We aren't there to see why the tractor isn't running We are merely throwing out plausible causes that have shown to be problems on many other tractors in similar conditions with similar symptoms. The tract record of this board and its members is clearly available via the archives. I would think you would be hard pressed to find this much N-knowledge and experience in another forum.. etc.

Soundguy

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Rob in VA

01-29-2004 14:12:19




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 Re: Re: Sputtering all the time in reply to Dell (WA), 01-29-2004 13:50:08  

Dell,
Sorry I forgot, I did get a new ignition switch and also tried the jumper. That wasn't my problem, hopfully you were right in your previous message about one of the founders of this board had a similar problem and it ended up being the manifold crack between the exhaust and intake. I will let you know next week.



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Glenn (MD)

01-29-2004 13:04:57




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 Re: Sputtering all the time in reply to Rob in VA, 01-29-2004 12:16:21  
This sounds very similar to how my tractor has been acting. I have also replace Coil, Plugs, Distributor, Rotar, and Points. When I got the tractor it had a replacemnt Zenith carb on it. I think the Zenith carb is most of my problem. I have had nothing but problems with it. Adjusting it makes no difference. I am now buying an original style carb. to try.



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Scott

01-29-2004 12:57:26




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 Re: Sputtering all the time in reply to Rob in VA, 01-29-2004 12:16:21  
I'd put my money on one of three things.

1) Carb not set correctly. You posed earlier that you have to shut the fuel off to keep from over flowing. That shouldn't be so. Take the carb off, run a little gas through the line. Split the carb, turn upside down and adjust the float so you can slide a 1/4" drill bit under it without touching. Clean good with carb cleaner and carefully re-assemble.

2) Start tractor and spray a little carb cleaner at the intake manifold. If it's leaking, the engine will change. It has a crack and needs replaced.

3) Timing. Set it with a light. Hook power leads to a donor bat, and the pickup lead to the #1 plug.

Let us know what happens.

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Rob in VA

01-29-2004 13:13:18




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 Re: Re: Sputtering all the time in reply to Scott, 01-29-2004 12:57:26  
Thanks for the advise, I just bought the carb so I didn't think that I would have to mess with the internal parts, just a little adjustment...I will test the manifold tonight and hopefully know if that is my problem.



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JohN 50

01-29-2004 18:07:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Sputtering all the time in reply to Rob in VA, 01-29-2004 13:13:18  
I had the same problem with a new carb I bought, after returning 3 (all leaked), the final one I took it apart and LOWERED the float just a bit more than it was suppose to be. Stopped the leaks and runs like a champ.



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Scott

01-29-2004 14:01:44




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 Re: Re: Re: Sputtering all the time in reply to Rob in VA, 01-29-2004 13:13:18  
Sorry about that, I forgot to say to grab the needle with a pair of small needle nosed pliars and twist....fingers just don't seem to work :)



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Scott

01-29-2004 13:56:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Sputtering all the time in reply to Rob in VA, 01-29-2004 13:13:18  
Just because it's new, doesn't mean it's right. With the carb leaking, it's not. Sometimes those carbs can be a pain. Even so, they're simple as can be. There's only one thing you probably need to pay attention to when re-assembling it. Make sure the float pin is centered correctly when you do. Once you split it, you'll see that the float, pin and needle are the only things to loose.

One other thing. Remove the float, gently grab the needle by the end while in the seat and twist it a bit...they're rubber tipped, so I have no idea why it helps to seat it, but it seems to. Then re-assemble and set the float. Sometimes it takes a couple times to get it working correctly. Once it's together, I have no idea what is binding, but I've got it wrong, not changed anything, re-assembled, and it was fixed.

Also, make sure your floats are straight with the carb. Had my grandmothers carb that was done by ford garage (told dad I'd do it, but nooooo oo :) ) was installed wrong...I had to fix that too.

I like using the triangular brass needles. The aluminum smaller ones don't seem to drop out of the seat as nicely.

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