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Sputtering Still

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Rob in VA

02-03-2004 16:48:00

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Well, I just took off the carb, cleaned all the jets and ports with carb cleaner. It already looked very clean. Put it back on the tractor and she sputtered instantly for about 5 minutes. Then like usual, all of a sudden it ran great, like a kitten...Well I kept here running for about ten minutes and then here came the sputterin again, as if somebody flipped a switch. You could barely tell at an idel, but once you put some gas too her, she sputtered and backfired something terrible. Tried to adjust the carb the whole time with no effect. Took off the air cleaner tube, no effect. No sparks coming off the wire. then all of a sudden, it started running great again and this time it lasted for 10 minutes...before the sputtering returned. It is not a gradual change, but all of a sudden. I turned her off and came on in. This thing is drivin me crazy. Any suggestions are welcome. I have complete confidence that you all can come up with the solution to my possessed tractor..thanks rob

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John IA

02-04-2004 15:43:45

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Re: Sputtering Still in reply to Rob in VA, 02-03-2004 16:48:00

Rob, I believe Bob said your tractor is a front distributor. I can't see it being plug wires as they should do it all the time. However it could be the distributor Bushings. If there wore out it may only be hitting on 1/2 cylinders part of the time. It could also be the coil points and condinser. Myself I think the problem will lye with the filter screens. Wish you'd hurry up and find problem, My hair is turning gray wondering about this. John

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Bob

02-04-2004 10:18:21

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Re: Sputtering Still in reply to Rob in VA, 02-03-2004 16:48:00

Rob,

Beg, borrow, or steal, an ignition oscilloscope.

Watch what happens to the ignition pattern when it cuts out. The will either pinpoint an ignition problem, or rule out an ignition problem.

Heck, I've got one I'll loan you... just pay the UPS both ways!

Thinking about this before posting, I seem to recall you have a front-mount distributor. This makes the 'scope idea a bit more difficult. Scopes have two high-voltage inductive pickups, one for the coil wire, to pick up the ignition pattern for all the cylinders, and one that goes on #1 spark plug wire to trigger the sweep, so all the cylinders show up on the screen in firing order. The lack of a coil wire makes it impossible to display all the cylinders at once, in firing order, but you would still be able to look at the firing patterns of each cylinder individually. Definitely something to think about!

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Steve W (NY)

02-04-2004 08:04:01

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Re: Sputtering Still in reply to Rob in VA, 02-03-2004 16:48:00

Still doubt it's a fuel problem. I think it's either the ignition switch, of the primary ignition sytem, or the plug wires. I've had a lot of experience with a lot of different engines, and these old ones are not that fussy about fuel, as long as they are getting some. The fact that it can run ten solid minutes really well, go sputtering for a while, and then run smooth again assures me it's electrical. No I've been wrong plenty of times, but when this is all said and done, I'll bet it's an ignition component.

Take Care and good luck
Steve

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plug wries...John,PA

02-04-2004 04:42:41

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Re: Sputtering Still in reply to Rob in VA, 02-03-2004 16:48:00

Might be time for a new set of spark plug wires.

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alan

02-03-2004 19:03:05

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Re: Sputtering Still in reply to Rob in VA, 02-03-2004 16:48:00

May want to check the intake manifold for cracks, leakage, and be sure the carb gasket connection at the manifold is a good seal.

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Chuck (VA)

02-03-2004 18:34:39

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Re: Sputtering Still in reply to Rob in VA, 02-03-2004 16:48:00

Rob:

Had a Silver King tractor that did something similar. Dad found a crack in the steel gas line where it was flared going into the compression fitting. It was next to a bend in the tubing. Figured it was sucking enough air to interrupt/restrict the gas flow. Don't think that the fuel line ever dripped gas.

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old

02-03-2004 18:19:37

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Re: Sputtering Still in reply to Rob in VA, 02-03-2004 16:48:00

From what I have read on this post it sounds like its in the ignition some where. I don't know what all you have done in that way but heres a few ideas. It could be a coil going bad, a crack in the disturbor cap, a weak switch or even a bad wire. Have you trying hot wireing it. My 801 at one time did what yours is doing and it was a bad coil. I know you may have tried all this but

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Jim

02-03-2004 18:05:19

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Re: Sputtering Still in reply to Rob in VA, 02-03-2004 16:48:00

You can also try and squirt some gas into the carburator while it is sputtering.Pull the intake hose from carb.and with an oil squirt can, with gasoline in it squirt some into the carb.it worth a try.

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Gary

02-03-2004 18:02:36

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Re: Sputtering Still in reply to Rob in VA, 02-03-2004 16:48:00

I had that same problem with an allis. Found that the points would start sticking. I just put a few drops of WD-40 on the pivot of the points and bingo, no more problem. Could also be a bad condenser. I had to put the old one back in more than once. Gary

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twopop

02-03-2004 17:56:29

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Re: Sputtering Still in reply to Rob in VA, 02-03-2004 16:48:00

I am going to bet on Spark.what plugs are you using.can you get ahold of a termperature gun? use it to check temp of exhuast from each cylinder.just point at the exhuast manifold and read temp.you can find the cylinder (s) not firing

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Bruce (VA)

02-03-2004 17:13:27

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Re: Sputtering Still in reply to Rob in VA, 02-03-2004 16:48:00

Did you replace the fuel filters, ie, the one in the elbow and the one in the top of the sediment bowl? Have you tried removing the gas cap when it starts sputtering? Have you recently removed the entire sediment bowl from the gas tank & checked that out? Have you removed the entire gas line & blown it out? As you can guess from my questions, I'm thinking trash somewhere in the fuel system, or partial vacumn lock. In the slight chance it is electrical (given that you have nearly replaced all of it w/o solving the problem, I really do think it's a fuel problem) try get a voltage reading to the coil when it is sputtering, compared to when it is not. And, back to the fuel....are you sure there is no water in the gas?

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Rob in VA

02-03-2004 17:30:50

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Re: Re: Sputtering Still in reply to Bruce (VA), 02-03-2004 17:13:27

I have checked all the filters and have taken the fuel cap off when sputtering and still not luck. I have taken off the sediment bowl and there has been some dirt in the bowl. I thought the same as you, but why would it start to sputter the second I put the carb back on the tractor. I will check the volts coming off the coil tomorrow. If all checks out and nobody thinks its electrical, I am going to flush the tank and try that.
thanks for your input

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02-03-2004 18:13:06

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Re: Re: Re: Sputtering Still in reply to Rob in VA, 02-03-2004 17:30:50

try spraying gas with a spray bottle into carb (take air hose off) when it starts sputtering- if it runs better when giving it gas, its a carb problem, if not improvement or change, likley electrical.

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John IA

02-03-2004 17:11:43

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Re: Sputtering Still in reply to Rob in VA, 02-03-2004 16:48:00

Rob, there is a brass screen on the fitting that the gas line hooks to at carb, {the elbow} theres also a brass screen in the top of the settlement bulb, plus one at the very top of shut off unit that you have to drian tank and remove settlement bulb to get to. I would say one of these sceens is full of settlement. Probably the one attached to the elbow at carb. This is 120 mesh wire and next to impossible to clean. Take it out cut the screen off, put it together if this cures your problem go to the dealer and get a new fitting for around $3.oo Don't continue to run without this screen as it will cause you more carb troubles. John

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RWK in WI

02-03-2004 17:34:13

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Re: Re: Sputtering Still in reply to John IA, 02-03-2004 17:11:43

Could you hook a temporary gas tank - like from an old lawn mower - directly to the carb inlet and see how it runs. This could eliminate carb or gas tank .
Just a thought.

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John IA

02-04-2004 06:43:19

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Re: Re: Re: Sputtering Still in reply to RWK in WI, 02-03-2004 17:34:13

RWK, that can be done,But finding a elbow that size without the screen and the same thread is the trick. John

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Rob in VA

02-03-2004 17:42:25

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Re: Re: Re: Sputtering Still in reply to RWK in WI, 02-03-2004 17:34:13

Great idea, will try that first thing in the morning, I just need to find something that will get the gas into the 1/4 inch line going into the carb. thanks for the idea

rob

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Don in Tallahassee

02-03-2004 18:28:08

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Sputtering Still in reply to Rob in VA, 02-03-2004 17:42:25

Do you by chance have a inline fuel filter in the fuel line. If so I would take it out. This is a gravity feed system and the inline filter usually needs a fuel pump. There should be three filters in the system, on it the tank on the sediment bowl then the screen above the glass bowl and the final one inside the the carb at the elbow. No inline filter at least until you get it running good

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