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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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Two Head Gaskets

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B. Jones

02-13-2004 09:12:57




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When dad overhauled the 2-N in 1964(Give or Take a little), he decided to put on 2 head gaskets. I can't remember if it had been leaking or not. Since my dad died in 1998, I can't ask him now. Should I pull the head, have it checked, and put back together with 1 gasket, or just leave it alone. It is NOT leaking, runs good. How much compression do you think I am loosing with 2 gaskets? Also what did they do to the latter model tractors to get the higher compression? Did they have different pistons or different head or What?

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Fast Ed Ohio

02-13-2004 23:27:19




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 Re: Two Head Gaskets in reply to B. Jones, 02-13-2004 09:12:57  
If it aint broke, dont fix it . ( leave well enough alone) been there, done that more than once.



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Dave OH

02-13-2004 21:38:01




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 Re: Two Head Gaskets in reply to B. Jones, 02-13-2004 09:12:57  
Suffice to say that the head may have been shaved and the extra clearance may have been needed. If it is runnung right don't go looking for trouble. If you ever have to replace the head gasket double gasket it as it was. You will never notice any difference in power.
Dave OH



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Rlach

02-13-2004 16:24:43




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 Re: Two Head Gaskets in reply to B. Jones, 02-13-2004 09:12:57  
Head warpage ??? leakage caused by overtorqued bolts ? I did it on a 1970 Marquis to reduce compression (and engine knocks)when high octane gas disapeared. 9N/2N/early 8N had lower compression than late 8N. The pistons have the same diameter(same bore/stroke/CIDs) but the piston pins are not at the same position. Late 8N pistons at TDC are closer to engine head, then compression is increased.
Rlach

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Jeb2N

02-13-2004 09:35:07




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 Re: Two Head Gaskets in reply to B. Jones, 02-13-2004 09:12:57  
If it's not leaking, I wouldn't worry about it. Just leave it as it is. A lot of people think that they can get extra hp by boring out the block. If you completely removed the sleeves and went with the biggest pistons you could put in there, you would get approximately 1 extra hp...not much. I imagine that you have lost about .5 hp with the extra gasket...not much.

It may be that the head was milled and the valves hit the head, so the extra gasket was needed for clearance. That seems the most likely explanation. As for later tractors with more power, bigger engine displacement combined with Overhead valve engines will boost compression ratios and hp.

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Hobo,NC

02-13-2004 16:52:11




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 Re: Re: Two Head Gaskets in reply to Jeb2N, 02-13-2004 09:35:07  
Jeb I got nuttin again ya but the problem is the piston may hit the head. valves have lots of room even after ya cut yer head. My guess is they had the head resurfaced and had piston interference with the head is why they installed two head gaskets. It worked so leave it along. if'n ya ever remove it install the head with no gasket and crank the engine over by hand with yer spark plugs out to check fer piston to head interference. If'n ya fell a piston hit or try to lift the head one gasket will not have enoufh clearence so ya will need two or get the grinder out and cut some out of the head or try a new head.

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Jeb2N

02-13-2004 17:11:32




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 Re: Re: Re: Two Head Gaskets in reply to Hobo,NC, 02-13-2004 16:52:11  
Maybe you can answer this for me. I didn't think the top of the piston (even though it is domed) ever came above the surfaces of the block, even at TDC. I could have sworn my 2N pistons never came above the sleeves. As in, i could lay a straight edge across the block and the pistons would not touch it. I may be mistaken but I thought that was the case. Maybe one of those early to late 8N changes? I could have sworn someone told me that the valves would hit rather than the piston itself.

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Hobo,NC

02-13-2004 18:04:08




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Two Head Gaskets in reply to Jeb2N, 02-13-2004 17:11:32  
The dome of the piston (at least on my 8N came out of the block) The top of the piston is not were the problem is. Is the outer edge of the piston that hits the head. ya see when ya cut the head you remove the machined step on the outer circumference (i guess i got that word right) of the head, and the outer part of the piston has no releif. After i worked my tale off grinding away at the center part of the head fer some clearence and trying to do a nice clean job I found out after looking at a head that had never been cut that i saw the releif for the outer part of the piston. To compound matters I also had my block decked. That also had a big affect on piston to head clearence. One of these days I am going to check compression to see if'n i got some real braggin rights. Valve clearence was never a problem.

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Jeb2N

02-14-2004 05:13:32




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Two Head Gaskets in reply to Hobo,NC, 02-13-2004 18:04:08  
Someone had mentioned that the position of the pistons in the block on the later 8N's was different from the earlier tractors. The pistons on my 2N never came out of the block, at least not around the edges. It may be possible that the dome of the piston comes out slightly, but no more than 1/32" out of the block. Interesting!



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Rlach

02-14-2004 12:24:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Two Head Gaskets in reply to Jeb2N, 02-14-2004 05:13:32  
"Late 8N pistons at TDC are CLOSER to engine head, then compression is increased." It doesn't mean that pistons are CLOSE to engine head, everything being relative. The only way to gain compression(compression ratios of 6.1:1 for 9N/2N/very early 8N and 6.7:1 for late 8N)is to slightly reduce the volume above the pistons, at TDC. The distance between the piston pin and top of piston must be very slightly longer(few thousandths of an inch)for late 8N pistons, compared to pistons used in 9N/2N/very early 8N. That way at TDC, gases are more compressed and engines still have the same displacement because all models use the same crankshaft (119.7 CID, same bore, same stroke). I didn't explain correctly in the first post.
Rlach

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