2N Hydraulic lift problems and a few other odditie

We recently bought a 45 2N. It didn't run when we bought it. First thing I did was to drain and replenish the gear oil, engine oil and filter, rebuild the carb, replace the fuel tank tap and put in a new battery.

Only problem I had at that point was in connecting the carb linkages to the wrong points. Amazing how a tractor can go from 0 rpm to real high rpm in no time! Took a few minutes to figure out that one.

The biggest problem at the moment is the hydraulic lift. With no load on the arms they go up and down just fine. When raised up and the pto disengaged it takes a while for the arms to drop down. However, it came with a 5' bush hawg and other than a slight movement of the arms when trying to lift it not much else happens. I can walk around to the back of the bush hawg (pto shaft not installed at this point) and lift the back end up and the lift will start raising.

Yesterday I switched over to the 6' blade that I bought for $50 (nice heavy duty howse brand) and have the same problem. It does lift the blade a little off the ground but just barely. If I help lift it up as high as it will go, as long as the engine is at its highest rpm setting the lift won't drop (at least not much) but as soon as I drop down in rpm the lift will gradually start to drop.

So the question is, what is the most likely culprit? I've bought gaskets knowing that I'm going to have to tear into the innards.

I have purchased the Zane Thang and will install it once I get the lift to actually work.

Thanks!

Brad

The most common places to leak on the lift is the piston rings and the pressure relief valve.
In order to determine where the lift is leaking you should remove the right hand inspection plate that holds the dip stick for the lift oil. If oil runs out when this cover is removed it has too much oil in it and letting it run out is ok.

Start the tractor with a load on the lift arms such as a rotary cutter etc. raise the lift and observe inside the lift to see where the oil is leaking down. If the piston rings are leaking their will be a pretty good stream of oil coming out the end of the ram cylinder. If just a few drops this is ok. If the bore of the ram cylinder is not badly scored a new set of rings and a little honing will fix this. I would recommend a piston and the Neoprene rubber ring for a badly scored cylinder or if you really want to eliminate leak down completely.

Observe the oil in the reservoir and if you see the oil swirling around the relief valve is probably leaking. It is the gadget that is screwed into the back of the hydraulic pump just under the pto shaft.It will be under the oil and feels something like a spark plug. You can remove and replace the relief valve with the PTO in place by bending a boxed end 11/16” end wrench about 60% so that it will reach under the PTO and still be long enough to give some leverage. A cut off wrench will work too but will have to be hammered to loosen the valve.

If before starting the tractor you will put your hand into the oil and locate the relief valve you can reach in and put one finger over the end of the relief valve and determine if it is leaking after the tractor has again been started. DON'T MAKE THE MISTAKE OF PUTING A FINGER IN THE PUMP MECHANISM!!!!

If however you don't see a significant leak from the top you can assume that the relief valve is leaking and simply replace it with a new one and thereby prevent the possible loss of a finger or two.

I;ve never tried it but I’ve read that you can drain enough oil from the lift reservoir to uncover the relief valve and see if it is leaking instead of using the obviously dangerous finger feel thing I described.

There could also be a blown gasket somewhere in the upper portion of the lift but if so you will see a lot of oil coming down from the top and then it’s just a case of taking the cover off and finding the culprit. The pump gasket can also blow inside and when this happens the lift will not raise any weight to speak of and is just about impossible to detect. The only thing to do in this case is to eliminate everything else and then pull the pump and replace the gasket to differential housing gasket.

Be sure to release the control rods from the control valve T on the pump before trying to remove the lift cover. To fail to do so will result in a broken lift control valve stem.

If the control valve is stuck the lift will not raise or go down if it is up. If you should be having trouble with the lift not going down when the lever is moved to the down position I would suggest that while the inspection plate is off on the side of the lift housing you reach in and manually push the two levers that go into the oil in the reservoir and are connected to the control valve. The control valve sometimes sticks in the up position. If you should find that you can make it go down by pulling the valve toward the rear of the tractor internally on the control rods the sticking could have been caused by dirty gritty oil. You should drain the lift and pour about 5 gallons of clean kerosene through the lift with the drain open. It is best to pour it directly into the inspection hole. Let the kerosene that drains out sit for about 15 minutes and pour it through again leaving the portion that is in the bottom of the container to be discarded. You can also do a pretty good job with a garden sprayer with kerosene in it or diesel etc. A pressure washer will do it too but then you are going to have the water residue to contend with. You can never get it all out and it will discolor the oil from the start up.

The control rods that attach to each end of the “T” shaped thingy on the control valve can become disconnected too. You can tell if this has happened by putting your hand down into the oil at the back of the pump following the control rods for a guide and feeling to see if they are still in both rods. The rods each have a small eyelet into which the “T” is held. On the N tractor these rods are retained simply by the spread of the two rods. The two rods have to be bent so that they are pushing inwards on both sides to hug the “T”. Sometimes the tension relaxes and then the “T” becomes dislodged and looses the hold on the control valve spool itself. You should try to squeeze the two control rods together enough that they will stay attached to the “T” before you try to re-attach them to the “T”.

If the control valve spring and retainer on the control valve spool itself is defective it can cause all sorts of problems of control etc. This is a rare condition but when the control valve spring fails it will not allow the control valve to move as it should in response to the movements of the control rods. This spring is between the “T”of the control valve and the control valve spool and is designed to cushion the sudden movement of the control rods as when using ground engaging equipment.

You should also inspect the spring that is connected between the front end of the ram cylinder of the lift to the knee portion of the control rods that go from the linkage at the top to the control valve in the bottom of the pump. This spring sometimes looses it tension from age and usage and must have enough tension on it to pull the control valve out when the lever is moved to the down position.

While N's hydraulics are "not quite rocket science", can be intiminating to the neubie.

A good N's hydraulics will keep a load up for over 1 hour, some bragg that their hydraulics will keep implements up overnite.

Me? Heres what I'd do for starters. I'd remove the 6" round dipstick access plate and try to lift your brushog. I'd look up inside the hole for "squirts". Theres 2 potential leakers, the hydraulic cylinder, or the standpipe gasket under your buttbuckett. Then I'd look down into to all that oil and look for swirls caused by the pressure relief valve. Iff'n you don't see squirts or swirls, then your pump probably needs rebuilt. Consult your I&T FO-4 manual for detailed procedure.

Also read what Zane sez about your hydraulic system..... ...respectfully, Dell

I just got done pulling the side access cover and found that there is a swirling and bubbling comfing from below where I assume the pressure relief valve is. I saw few if any drips from above. Kinda hard to see in there with the tire in the way.

I did a quick check of the lift quadrant adjustment and moved it forward just a touch. Seems to start lowering about where the book says it should. Also I raised the lift up with the blade installed and then turned the engine off. It took about 4 to 5 minutes for the blade to finally hit the ground.

I'm assuming what is needed is to pull the pump and clean things up. It would seem that the lift cylinder itself is in reasonable condition due to the slow leak down (with weight attached).

Thanks!

Brad

Not having to pull the pump will save a bunch of time. I don't know if I will have time to try and pull the relief valve this weekend or not, we're in the middle of building a new garage. Possibly this week though.

Would it help if he left rear wheel was pulled while trying to perform this work?

Thanks!

Brad