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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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Camshaft/knurl

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Rob

09-20-2004 12:31:57




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The camshaft is set in the block with the block as a bearing surface and that surface wears. There's no bearing inserts to replace.
I've got an engine of the stand and I might have the cam out tomorrow to check the play. I'm thinking the cam race can be knurled but I really don't know yet. Haven't talked to the shop about it. I know squat about knurling but a fellah posted it the other day so it's on my list of things to check out.

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ZANE

09-21-2004 05:37:20




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 Re: Camshaft/knurl in reply to Rob, 09-20-2004 12:31:57  
Knurling is not good for anything. It is sometimes used on valve guides to tighten them up but it is a short lived fix since the only points touching the valve stem will wear rapidly upon usage.

If you did have the block knurled all you would be accomplishing is to speed the wear of the cam beaing surfaces since it would rapidly wear down the high places created by the knurling and knurling takes material away from the bearing surface that can't be replaced when it is knurled.

It also would not have any effect on encreasing the oil pressure since when it is knurled it would not prevent or change any flow of oil over the beaing surface as the oil will still have the same clearance to move through when it is knurled as it moves around the high places created by the knurling.

Don't!

Zane

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Rob

09-21-2004 05:46:39




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 Re: Camshaft/knurl in reply to ZANE, 09-21-2004 05:37:20  
I've seen they knurl valve guides but I've never heard of using it with a cam. Seems like if a guy knurled the cam race it would just eat up the block even faster, being harder than the block.
Maybe they can build up the cam race some to fit the worn block. Maybe even might knurl the cam and fill it with epoxy. I need to compare notes with a machinist. I don't know what can be done with these epoxies anymore.

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Bob

09-21-2004 08:44:21




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 Re: Camshaft/knurl in reply to Rob, 09-21-2004 05:46:39  
If the block bores are REALLY worn, it should be possible for a well-equipped engine machine shop to align bore the block for bearing inserts or bushings, if some can be found of the right dimensions. Automotive machinest have access to reference books that list components by dimension, and it is certainly possible that bearings could be found to match the cam shaft journals, or even made up out of bronze or aluminum material.

It would probably be a good idea to start with a new cam along with the bearings.

That being said, you would probably be exceeding the cost of a good used replacement block!

I really doubt that the low oil pressure is caused only by the cam bearings, unless they are REALLY worn badly.

What is the condition of the oil pump? Wear here is critical.

New oil pumps are available with either 9/16" wide gears or the 3/4" wide gears that were used on the later 'N tractors.

The problem is that the main bearing bores have to be align bored when a new pump is installed, as it is part of the front main bearing cap.

If the old oil pump is worn at all, a new one will go a long way towards restoring oil pressure.

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Rob

09-21-2004 10:17:42




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 Oil filter. in reply to Bob, 09-21-2004 08:44:21  
That's interesting you say a new oil pump needs to be bored because it's part of the main. Hadn't heard that before.
Dave, in the top post, says he replaced the regulator spring, rebuilt the oil pump, and all the bearings are good and he still has crappy oil pressure. If you think it's not the cam shaft that's his problem then tell him what is. That was his question; "what am I missing?"
I don't see the camshaft in the lube circuit (Fig. FO54) anyway. Maybe "worn camshaft causes low oil pressure in the N" is a load of bullpucky. I hear there is a restrictor in the oil filter canister to maintain and drop the oil pressure but I just looked at mine and there is no restrictor. I wonder if using the less expensive C-3 paper filter instead of the more costly but laminated felt CP-3 filter lets the oil pressure go to crap. Maybe that filter is suppose to provide back-pressure. That's probably not it, I think I have a paper filter in my 8N and it has good pressure. Maybe the oil line entering the governor should be restricted.

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Bob

09-21-2004 10:42:29




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 Re: Oil filter. in reply to Rob, 09-21-2004 10:17:42  
Rob,

Yes, it is a known fact that you need to align bore the mains when replacing the oil pump, just as you do with any engine, when replacing a rod or main bearing cap.

Just because he has "rebuilt" the oil pump, it is not necessarily good. The rebuild kits contain the shaft and gears and bushing, but do nothing to address the wear caused to the pump housing by the gears. As the bushing wears, and the shaft moves a bit off center, the gears wear into the pump housing. When a new shaft and gears are installed, (if there has been excessive wear to the case) there will still be internal leakage in the pump, worse when the oil is warm, due to the excessive clearance between the gears and the pump housing.

I certainly cannot confirm or deny the condition of his camshaft and bearing bores from a distance, but as I posted before, unless the wear is considerable, I'll bet there are other contributing factors, such as a weak oil pump. I would check the camshaft jornal diameters, also. If the cam has considerable wear, replacing it would tighten things up a bit.

As far as the filter restriction, we have discussed that here before. The oil enters the filter canister from the side, passes inward to the center of the filter, and enters a tiny hole in the side of the center tube of the filter near the top (to allow air that rises to the top to purge). The tiny hole in the side of the center tube acts as a restrictor. The oil then flows downward, through the hollow center tube, and out the bottom, where it is piped to the governor. (Or back to the crankcase, on older models.) No restrictor should be needed at the governer.

There have been questions, however, if any of the filter canisters had a restriction at the inlet fitting also. I cannot answer that with certainty.

If you'd like more info on new pumps and the need to align bore, email me.

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Dell (WA)

09-21-2004 08:43:51




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 Re: Camshaft/knurl in reply to Rob, 09-21-2004 05:46:39  
Rob..... ....valveguide are "knurled" 'cuz they're usually SOFTER METAL like bronze. Valvestems are hardened steel and usuall chrome-plated. Camshafts are also HARDENED STEEL but NOT chromeplated. I doubt that you could knurl a camshaft bearing journal to raise the camshaft bearing surface to reduce the bearing clearing in the castiron N-Block to increase the oilpressure by reducing the normal oilleakage. Iff'n ya certain your low oilpressure is a camshaft bearing clearance problem, I suppose you could "chromeplate" yer camshaft bearing journals. They do that with crankshaft journals, why not camshaft journals? Or you could have your N-Block bearings linebored and bearing sleeves installed..... ...Dell

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