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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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New flywheel thickness

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Rob

09-29-2004 05:13:39




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I'm wanting to know if this flywheel has been surfaced. I'll probably have it surfaced again but I want to know what shim I should put in there.
Dang thing doesn't want to disengage completly but the clutch surface is near new; still has some printing on it. Pressure plate is pristine. Flywheel is not a pristine surface. Seems the clutch was replaced without surfacing the flywheel. The kicker is the clutch doesn't slip.
Thanks.

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Hobo,NC

09-29-2004 14:41:57




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 Re: New flywheel thickness in reply to Rob, 09-29-2004 05:13:39  
Pulled a good used flywheel out and checked it. Interesting what I found. From the ring gear to the clutch face it was 9.05 this may vary depends on if the ring gear is running true, found it to run .893 to .905 . From the crank flange ( were the wheel bolts to the crank) it was 9.05. Bolt holes are blind so check'em. I have not see the flywheel spes in the FO-4 does make me wonder if the spec ya found is the discard thickness. Have ya checked to see iff'n their are shims avalible for a N would be nice to know.

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Rob

09-29-2004 15:09:54




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 That .855 is minimum. Can go no less. in reply to Hobo,NC, 09-29-2004 14:41:57  
And if I had read FO-4 para 44 more carefully I would have known it was from the mounting flange to the friction surface.
I was going to look for a shim if I got to where it was something I needed. This one looks good at least taking a measure from the ring gear.
Goodman has a bunch of .025 and .050 shims but I don't know which or if any fit this flywheel. 0.855 + .050 = .905 which is what you measured so might be some kind of flywheel 'standard' thing.
I'm going to look for a sheared pin that let a linkage shift like Don talked about. Something had to shift because everything is full thickness and not worn. New friction plate, virgin flywheel, pristine pressure plate but all the adjust is gone and the clutch won't disengage completely.
Still need to check the fingers when I get it assembled.
Thanks for coming up with that measurement.

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Hobo,NC

09-29-2004 15:54:57




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 Re: That .855 is minimum. Can go no less. in reply to Rob, 09-29-2004 15:09:54  
I would not junk the wheel out cuzz it was .855 unless the clutch gave me poor performance. i am not a engineer so some times I don't understand the angle of the dang'ell(AOD}. One thing I have never understood is why does shorter vales give ya moore lift, got me but it is true. What i would worrie about is if the clutch release lever is hitting the clutch cover when depressed. .050 does not sound like much but it may throw out the
AOD. Did ya get a chance to check out the bolts yet.

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Rob

09-29-2004 17:22:51




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 AOD looks ok. in reply to Hobo,NC, 09-29-2004 15:54:57  
Bolts are good and everything pulls together. Fingers are within 1/16".
Maybe I'll get to the pins tomorrow.



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Hobo,NC

09-29-2004 17:51:58




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 Re: AOD looks ok. in reply to Rob, 09-29-2004 17:22:51  
don't know what I was a thinking the clutch fork would not hit the cover on a N. one other thing ya can check. Lay the clutch on the flywheel. With one finger press down near then edge of the clutch plate say last inch, if it lifts the other end up the disc is warped, get a nutter plate try this all the way a round the clutch disc (plate}.; You can also check the utter side by placeing it on the clutch cover (pressure plate). I will not install a clutch if it does not pass this test, Possible the clutch petal is bent, I think ya can remove the floor board and find out if it will release.

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Rob

09-30-2004 15:06:52




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 Had a time finding a floor board to remove. in reply to Hobo,NC, 09-29-2004 17:51:58  
Once I got that taken care of I looked like Donb told me and as soon as I pulled off the throw-out bearing I knew right away there was a situation.
The shifter fork was held on with a double-nutted 5/16" bolt and not the 5/16" flat head pin as advertised. So I grabbed the shaft and the fork and twisted and sure 'nough, they moved in two different directions all at the same time. Got the bolt off and the fork moved to the side and can see the hole through the shaft is wallowed out. There is 1/2" slop in the travel of the throw-out bearing. The bolt was bent, too.
Shouldn't be any big deal to bush it.

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Hobo,NC

09-30-2004 15:44:54




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 Re: Had a time finding a floor board to remove. in reply to Rob, 09-30-2004 15:06:52  
Yep I bet ya did. was thinking if ya got it back together and still had yer problem to make sure ya had no interference with the pedal. Sounds like ya got it.



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Hobo,NC

09-29-2004 11:38:23




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 Re: New flywheel thickness in reply to Rob, 09-29-2004 05:13:39  
Bolt the pressure plate up to the flywheel with out the clutch disc, make sure the bolts tighen down the cover befor they bottom out. May have to add a washer to the bolt. If the bolt has a shoulder or the bolt hole is blind the bolt could run into interference befor it pulls the clutch cover down. I would think you would mesure from the flywheel crank flange to the clutch surface. If I get time I will pull one out of the parts pile and check it. I know they make a shim fer automotive use, have never used one.

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Rob

09-29-2004 12:50:56




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 You make sense on the measurement. in reply to Hobo,NC, 09-29-2004 11:38:23  
I'll check those bolts.



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Dell (WA)

09-29-2004 08:07:01




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 Re: New flywheel thickness in reply to Rob, 09-29-2004 05:13:39  
Rob..... ....make certain you are mounting your clutch disc with the LONG side of the off-set hub facing the tranny. You doubt? Look sidewize at your clutch disc hub, its supposted to be off-set. Otherwize, you'll NEVER get the clutch to disengage..... .....Dell



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Rob

09-29-2004 08:43:18




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 Re: New flywheel thickness in reply to Dell (WA), 09-29-2004 08:07:01  
That long side is really long. Don't think it could go in but one way. The hub on the one side is a lot bigger. The springs are mounting in it.



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ericlb

09-29-2004 06:02:48




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 Re: New flywheel thickness in reply to Rob, 09-29-2004 05:13:39  
hi rob, the flywheel should be turned on any clutch job to avoid the "grabbing" or shudder when the new clutch disc engauges it, i used to do this job, and if the flywheel has "hot spots" [ blue burned looking areas] you need to have it turned on a flywheel grinder, [not a brakelathe mounted grinder], this is important, as the brakelathe mounted grinder will still skip over the hot spots, i had a terrible time with this problem in the shop, untill we got the new flywheel grinder, this is a specific use machine and is worth it to find a place with one, how is the pedel travel compared to the old clutch,[ engaugement points]? if the flywheel is too thin now the travel with the new clutch will be excessive have you tried set the free travel at about a 3/4 inch at the top , and see if it still wont disengauge? im not sure this is the correct adjustment, but it has served me for years, hope some of this helps, ericlb

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Rob

09-29-2004 09:07:27




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 More I look at it, more it looks like it hasn't in reply to ericlb, 09-29-2004 06:02:48  
been surfaced. This is a 2N, btw. The flywheel still has a full bevel on the edge and it measures .926" thick from the ring gear. I saw some archives stuff about a guy says his was at .87" and the FO-4 says minimum is .855". I'm not positive how you measure the flywheel thickness. I don't know if you include the ring gear or what. The wear on it now is light to medium. No blue high spots and a guy might get away with out surfacing. In fact, I'm not replacing the friction plate so I'm not going to resurface the flywheel.
Must be the finger height is fouled up.

If you measure the flywheel from the surface on the id, there where the bolts go through into the crankshaft flange then this flywheel is way under minimum.
The clutch shows little to no wear; like I said some of the printing is still on the one surface; the flywheel side. The pressure plate is smooth but has a slight ridge on the inside so it has some wear.
The clutch was adjusted all the way on the clevis, there wasn't any more.
This has a Sherman and maybe that has the shifter fork moved away from the clutch. Maybe that spacing can be wrong. Something isn't right, this clutch should have a ton of adjustment.

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don b

09-29-2004 11:20:44




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 Re: More I look at it, more it looks like it hasn' in reply to Rob, 09-29-2004 09:07:27  
Rob, there is only one adjustment for the clutch.I suspect the pin that holds your fork on the clutch shaft [on the inside] or either the pin that holds the clutch adjusting arm on the the outside is sheared.Check both those parts with some resistance to make sure they are working proper.Check real close. don



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Rob

09-30-2004 15:00:27




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 Some farmer been wrenchin on it in reply to don b, 09-29-2004 11:20:44  
You were on to it Don. The shifter fork was held on with a double-nutted 5/16" bolt. The hole through the shaft is wallowed out and there was 1/2" slop in the travel of the throw-out bearing. The bolt was bent.
Shouldn't be any big deal to bush it.



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Dell (WA)

09-30-2004 15:31:01




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 Re: Some farmer been wrenchin on it in reply to Rob, 09-30-2004 15:00:27  
Rob..... ....izz ALWAYS sumptin, ain't it? Sounds like you really hadda double-digg to find a waller-out pivot and BENT bolt. Maybe they should "out-law" #12 boots on the clutch shifter (grin)..... ...Dell



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Rob

09-30-2004 16:33:33




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 I don't know if it took a leadfoot. in reply to Dell (WA), 09-30-2004 15:31:01  
On that 2N the clutch pedal also operates the brake.
I learned a few things about the clutch while I was about it. I learned a close inspection of the shifter fork, the shaft, and the shaft bushings must be part of replacing a clutch. I imagine the right-side shaft bushing will need replaced with the clutch. This one sure needs a bushing. $5 split bushing...cheap. You want the far end of the shaft held tight or everything gets turned cocked when you push on the pedal. That and a leadfoot and you're doomed to ruin the $15 shaft, the $15 throw-out bearing plus the $2 pin.
Not to mention replacing the clutch doesn't fix nothing. I bet that's how this new clutch ended up in here. The old clutch wasn't bad but he missed this shaft problem. Must have bummed him to change that clutch and end up with no adjustment.

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don b

10-01-2004 08:56:37




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 Re: I don't know if it took a leadfoot. in reply to Rob, 09-30-2004 16:33:33  
Rob, glad you found the problem.You are correct about checking the other parts as well.I don't like halving a tractor two or three times either.It's amazing what and how fast we learn while working on these tractors.Just been there and done that like you and many others have done. don



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txblu

09-29-2004 06:29:13




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 Re: New flywheel thickness in reply to ericlb, 09-29-2004 06:02:48  
A competent machine shop with a lathe will do it for you at about $40. Took off about .05 on my last one and it had heat cracks and blue and all the bad stuff. Looked like a new one.

I didn't realize that heat cracks were so shallow.

If your clutch won't disengage, you have a different problem. Since the clutch pressure plate mounts to the surface of the flywheel, it cares not how thick it is. The dimensions internal to it and the disc are relative to each other, not the mounting surface thickness (flywheel).

Might need to tweak your linkage instead of fooling with the flywheel. .05 on it is nothing compared to the adjustment range of your clutch release rod. If you run out of holes and thread on the rod, cut it off or add some length.

Mark

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