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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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History of motor oil detergents additives

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Rob

05-26-2005 05:06:09




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API (American Petroleum Institute) has been categorizing motor oil for more than 100-years now. The S.A.E. oil weight scheme is part of all that. The API S-series service categories are for use in automotive gasoline engines. The latest service catagory for those engines is SM (for use in engines after 2004). The old service category SA contains no additives and is not suitable for engines built after 1930. SB contains additives and is not suitable for engines built after 1963. SA & SB are non-detergent (ND) oils. Additives were around, in fact synthetic oils were introduced in WW2, but the flathead engines weren"t designed for them and in the case of detergents and dispersants doesn"t want them. (The reason for that was discussed yesterday in my detergent v non-detergent post.) I suppose aviation, marine, and other specialized engine designs were using additives including detergents and dispersants but that"s all beside the point here.
Seems that the longer lasting (hours between rebuilds) OHV engines required additional motor oil additives especially detergents and dispersants. Figure the SC service class (first of the detergent oils) was introduced for the longer lasting OHV engines which were used in autos and American tractors beginning in the early-to-mid 1950"s. The OHV engines needed the detergents, dispersants, and a full-flow oil filter to prevent sludge accumulation from blocking the oil passages.
The Ford N tractor manuals do not use the words "non-detergent." But rather the oil in use at the time was non-detergent with the engines were designed acordingly. Anyway, the oil recommended for use in the flathead was a non-detergent oil.
I"ve seen where API states that the SL and SM service class detergent oils are not to be used in engines recommended for ND oil. API no longer say much, if anything, about earlier service classes and they show everything before SJ class (for 2001 and older engines) as "obsolete." When you understand why detergents are used and what is going on in the engine with the motor oil you can see why API says to not use detergent oils in engines recommended (designed) to use ND oil.
Over on the Ford flatty Red"s Headers website they sell a "full-flow" oil filter kit. You get into that and you"ll surely find that the kit is for the guy that wants to use a modern oil to extend the life of his hotrod flathead. So I make my point again with a bit more information and say that unless you modify the block and install a full-flow oil filter, use of a detergent oil in the flathead it will cause excessive wear of the bearings and seals and shorten engine life.
I won"t loose any sleep over the use of detergent oil and if I need a quart right now I"ll use what I got even that 5W-30 I might have around for the coupe, but I change the oil fairly often seeing as I only put some couple-few hundred hours/year on a tractor. Now I know better and I"ll try to keep an ND oil in there.
I"m sure all this info can help a guy, especially a guy counting on some income from his N, to make a more informed choice of motor oil lowering his operating cost in the long run.

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2fordsmike

05-26-2005 15:36:40




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 Re: History of motor oil detergents additives in reply to Rob, 05-26-2005 05:06:09  
We started using 10W-30 in our farm tractors sometime in the 1950s including hard-working Fords. Recently I read a reprint in a John Deere collector magazine telling how such oils were added to recommended service for those old two-cylinder engines sometime in the 1950s. Engine life was going up dramatically, from what I have learned, with the better oils and better materials in engines even back in those days. I'd don't know enough to dispute your argument, but I am a bit skeptical. Cordially, Mike-Iowa

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Dean

05-26-2005 07:13:04




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 Re: History of motor oil detergents additives in reply to Rob, 05-26-2005 05:06:09  
Again, an interesting discussion with much useful information.

Though most of us have our own opinions about the issue we should all remember the bottom line: Any oil, detergent, ND, synthetic, 5W, used, dirty, etc. is better than no oil.

I will continue to use 15w40 New Holland (valvoline) in my clean 8N and 860 but I'm sure either would perform just as well and just as long with ND 30w (20w in the winter).

Dean

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Rob

05-26-2005 08:25:40




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 Re: History of motor oil detergents additives in reply to Dean, 05-26-2005 07:13:04  
The right motor oil isn"t going to make a big difference when it isn"t changed. Leaving wet, contaminated oil just sit on the bearings and seals for months at a time will undo any advantage from using the "good stuff" and probably do more damage than suspended abrasives.
Ford says change the oil every 100hrs.



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bama ray

05-26-2005 07:02:20




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 Re: History of motor oil detergents additives in reply to Rob, 05-26-2005 05:06:09  
Rob....where you buying your non detergent motor oil at? If you are buying the cheap stuff at you corner store and think you are buying non detergent you are wrong that stuff is line flush it is called non detergent because it does not meet any spec.....aircraft motor oil is the only non detergent motor oil that I know of that is made today



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Rob

05-26-2005 08:17:14




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 Re: History of motor oil detergents additives in reply to bama ray, 05-26-2005 07:02:20  
Lot"s of ND SB class oil around. CITGO and Phillips 66 comes to mind right now. I don"t know about "line flush" but I do buy some ND SA class (no additives) oil for my oil can because the guys that make my air tools say I can use any ND 30 oil as a lube and the other stuff I oil don"t need additives or detergents. I get that ND 30 SA class at AutoZone.
Oil will have a service category on the label, a guy needs to look-see and ND SB class oil is harder to find than the latest API spec but it"s around. You might not find it at the convenience store or Wal-Mart but it"s still made for sure.

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souNdguy

05-26-2005 07:15:34




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 Re: History of motor oil detergents additives in reply to bama ray, 05-26-2005 07:02:20  
76 still sells a ND oil, as well as traveler, along with the jiffy store branded stuff.

Also.. many lawnmower makers sell a ND oil.. BS does.. or at least used to..

Soundguy



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Dan

05-26-2005 06:21:50




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 Re: History of motor oil detergents additives in reply to Rob, 05-26-2005 05:06:09  
You make a good point Rob about someone needing to get the most out of an N Series tractor using it for income. I think we seem to forget these tractors are still usable to make a living and look at them more as a hobby or a misc. chores tractor.

Good research,
Dan



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Rob

05-26-2005 06:46:12




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 Re: History of motor oil detergents and additives in reply to Dan, 05-26-2005 06:21:50  
Thanks Dan. Yeah we take some short-cuts, make-do"s, and good-enoughs on our "occasional" tractors sometimes but when you"re running day-in-day out and needing to make a living those short-cuts and make-do"s can cost some time and real money.
I spent years responsible for heavy industrial plant maintence with all the pumps, motors, drives, gear-boxes, and many, many types of industrial equipment and learned the value of and cost savings in understanding using the proper gasket and seal materials and lubrication and other fluids and gases. Small, seemingly insignificant and often overlooked, changes can mean the difference between a system working or not, much less working in a dependable, efficient, durable, and cost effective manner.
Coming from that I suppose, the detergent/non-detergent, partial-filter thing has been in the back of my mind for some time now. My experience is that these matters can be significant, now I know, and I can go paint my shed today.

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