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Clutch on 8N

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gonzotractor

10-17-2005 05:51:27

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Posted this on the wrong forum yetsrerday....

Teaching son to drive 1950 8N. Rolling along slowly in 1st gear and it just stopped. I got on and worked gears and PTO and no go anywhere! I assume clutch is out but maybe I am missing something?

Hope I do not have to split this one!

Any advice?

Thanks!

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KCM

10-17-2005 06:04:13

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Re: Clutch on 8N in reply to gonzotractor, 10-17-2005 05:51:27

Does your tractor have an auxilliary transmission, such as a Sherman or Hupp? If it does, it may have slipped into neutral, which would cut all power to the transmission. Otherwise, it would almost have to be something wrong with the clutch disc, such as the hub came loose. Any odd noises?

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gonzotractor

10-17-2005 06:10:10

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Re: Clutch on 8N in reply to KCM, 10-17-2005 06:04:13

Honestly do not know. I am a fair car mechanic, but this is my first tractor. How would I tell?

Thanks!

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souNdguy

10-17-2005 05:55:34

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Re: Clutch on 8N in reply to gonzotractor, 10-17-2005 05:51:27

No pto either? If you had pto.. I would have guessed tranny to diffy coupler.. or rivits int he ring gear.. but with no pto.. you have no tranny either... I guess that would be 100% used up clutch material.. or hub broke out.

Soundguy

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gonzotractor

10-17-2005 06:02:10

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Re: Clutch on 8N in reply to souNdguy, 10-17-2005 05:55:34

Thanks, Soundguy. I was hoping that there was some little thing I was overlooking. Actually the PTO rotated very slowly. How difficult is a complete clutch assembly change on the 8N? I have limited shop facilities at this time.

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Pooh Bear

10-17-2005 14:52:25

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Re: Clutch on 8N in reply to gonzotractor, 10-17-2005 06:02:10

This past summer I changed the clutch in my 49 8N.
I went out in the side yard in the shade
and sunk some 12ft posts in the ground 6 ft apart.
Put a cross post at the top and braced it all up.
I used this setup to lift up the steering box.
After that just unbolt the tranny and roll it back out of the way.
Change the clutch and the front tranny seal.
Put it all back together same as it came apart.
Took me and my dad about 2.5 days and we're slow at it.
Twern't nothin difficult 'bout it a'tall.

Pooh Bear

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Dell (WA)

10-17-2005 06:42:12

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Re: Clutch on 8N in reply to gonzotractor, 10-17-2005 06:02:10

Gonzo..... ...iff'n you have the dealer installed "Sherman" auxilary tranny, you will have a shifter lever over yer left toe. Foward for low, middle for NEUTRAL, back for high. Iff'n aux tranny in neutral, it won't transmitt energy into main 4-speed tranny and tractor won't move.

Splittin' an N-Tractor involves blocking the front-half, removing steering dragg-links from side of tranny; unboltin' the tranny and supporting it with a rolling jack. Roll the tranny back-away from the engine. Simple, eh?

Lotts of hints in "archives" at the top of this great N-Board. Also recommend you gitt yer very own personal copy of the I&T FO-4 repair manual. $22 (cheap)..... ...Dell

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gonzotractor

10-17-2005 06:53:20

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Re: Clutch on 8N in reply to Dell (WA), 10-17-2005 06:42:12

Went out and checked and no lever over left toe.

PTO actually rotates but I can stop it by hand.

Hydraulics weak at best. Will hardly lift.

I have rollong jacks so I guess it"s time to study up on this project!

Wher do I get the manual?

Thanks again.

Gonzo

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Rob

10-18-2005 05:07:00

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Grabbed the PTO shaft? in reply to gonzotractor, 10-17-2005 06:53:20

I gotta say something to that.

I can see why a guy might try that in your situation but a guy"s safety sense should over-rule.

Don"t ever, ever do that again. That"s just nuts.

You need to rethink your safety sense before that tractor hurts you real bad.

That"s just nutz.

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Dell (WA)

10-17-2005 07:27:42

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Re: Clutch on 8N in reply to gonzotractor, 10-17-2005 06:53:20

Gonzo..... ...the I&T FO-4 manual is available from sponsors of this great N-Board. Most agricultural emporiums. Amazon.com; Bordersbooks; WalMart books; www.n-news.com also has great archives of implement manuals too. Yer local CNH Ford/New Holland dealer sells it, isn't that amazing? Even my local (byte my tongue) John Deere parts counter is selling it. $22, (cheap). Gittchur own personal copy and readitt..... ..respectfully, Dell

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gonzotractor

10-17-2005 07:40:58

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Re: Clutch on 8N in reply to Dell (WA), 10-17-2005 07:27:42

Dell,

Thanks! I will get a copy and study before proceding.

Reading the archives now. I have a little fluid coming from the weepholes. One under tranny has some tranny fluid coming out. Is it possible that the clutch is wet from tranny fluid? Would I be able to stop PTO by hand if it was wet? Seems like even a "wet" clutch would transfer enough power to keep me from stopping PTO rotation?

Is there any adjustment that might be the problem?

Thanks,

Gonzo

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Bob

10-17-2005 07:49:16

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Re: Clutch on 8N in reply to gonzotractor, 10-17-2005 07:40:58

PLEASE don't try to stop the PTO "by hand"!

A little oil, by itself won't make the clutch slip that bad.

Either the hub is torn out of the clutch plate or you've got an auxillary transmission "hiding" in there, as I told you in my reply to your other post.

Here's some links to auxillary transmission information:

Link

These links show some of the various forms of shifters you may or may not have, if there is actually an add-on tranny in your tractor.

When the auxillary trannies were installed, there had to be a hole made in the tractor's belly section for the shift lever to exit, so look at the pictures, and see of your tractor has had any of those mods. If not, it sounds like it will have to be split and the clutch repaired.

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gonzotractor

10-17-2005 08:13:45

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Re: Clutch on 8N in reply to Bob, 10-17-2005 07:49:16

First, I want to thank you guys for the conversation. I learned a lot today.

Bob, you hit the nail on the head with the link to the Sherman transmission. I found the cable stuck up under the hood. It is in bad shape but I forced it to go in and out. VIOLA! Tractor moved immediately when I let the clutch out! Now I will need to figure out if it is step up or step down!

By the way, I simply put a gloved hand on the ORC to stop the PTO which was turning MUCH slower than normal.

Thanks again for the help!!

Gonzo

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Steve(OR)

10-17-2005 16:07:21

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Re: Clutch on 8N in reply to gonzotractor, 10-17-2005 08:13:45

I want to echo Bob's concern over stopping a turning pto by hand. A gloved hand may actually be MORE dangerous than a bare hand because the glove material could hang up in the splines and rip your hand or fingers clean off. If that cable shifter had slipped out of nuetral you might be typing with a pencil held in your teeth. BE SAFE!

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Steve(OR)

10-17-2005 16:06:37

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Re: Clutch on 8N in reply to gonzotractor, 10-17-2005 08:13:45

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Carl S in NH

10-17-2005 14:59:38

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Re: Clutch on 8N in reply to gonzotractor, 10-17-2005 08:13:45

Red Rock manufacturing sells some Sherman transmisson parts, including a cable.
Check out their products here:
Link

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Dell (WA)

10-17-2005 11:20:03

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Re: Clutch on 8N in reply to gonzotractor, 10-17-2005 08:13:45

Gonzo..... ...all the cable operated Sherman aux trannys are STEP-UP. Pull for straight thru, balls-to-the-wall for high-speed step-up (+33% OD) Interestingly enuff, 1st+OD is almost as fast as 3rd straight. So unless you have a very pressing need for 18mph 4th+OD, I'd recommend you leave yer aux tranny in straight-thru. (low speed)

VERY BIGG CAUTION: that armored cable shifter is FRAGGLE and RUSTS TIGHT and quits shifting and breaks. I don't know of enny replacement cable shifters. Try and "lube" the armored cable as best you can..... ...Dell

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Jetman8N

10-17-2005 12:36:03

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Re: Clutch on 8N in reply to Dell (WA), 10-17-2005 11:20:03

Dell, I hate to tell one of the masters that they may be wrong but I have a cable operated Sherman that is a step down. The cable was rusted when I got the tractor. I built a shift lever actuated mechanism that operates via the existing shift fork actuator. Put the lever on the left side just like the later ones. The tractor is a late 1950 and had several "left over" 9N2N parts like the underhood cyclone separator and this cable operated Sherman. This Sherman has no detent shift balls internally so I included the detent feature in my modification. By the way, I think the cables are now available aftermarket for about $125 with a rubber coating. I elected to build my shifter for about $15 in parts and a few hours labor (cheap to me). Anyway, I was surprised when I got the tractor running that the tractor went very slowly with the Sherman engaged. A useable reverse gear now.

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Dell (WA)

10-17-2005 18:29:42

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Re: Clutch on 8N in reply to Jetman8N, 10-17-2005 12:36:03

JetMan..... ..thats ok, there is dirth of authoritive Sherman products information, and since there doesn't seem to be a source of Sherman parts, we're all operating semi-blind. I got my "info" about the cable shifter from the "infamous" John Smith. But iff'n you say yer cable operated Sherman is a "slow-down" thats great for you.

Infact, I'm embarrassed to admit that I probably had my 8N 3-years before I found the "secret" 3-speed shifter trick, push-out to the LEFT about 1-inch and pull back towards the driver gives you the straight-thru 4-speed gearbox ratios..... ....Dell, the shiftless

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Bob

10-17-2005 09:31:47

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Re: Clutch on 8N in reply to gonzotractor, 10-17-2005 08:13:45

You can't beat that... simple solution for the problem, PLUS you found out you have an extra transmission!

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gonzotractor

10-18-2005 05:19:18

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Re: Clutch on 8N in reply to Bob, 10-17-2005 09:31:47

Point taken regarding PTO.

Thanks for the link on the replacement cable! This one is in very bad shape and was stuck up under the hood. I had to work it very hard to get it to engage.

Gonzo

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