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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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It Just Died

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BKCRoberts

12-05-2005 04:23:03




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I bought my 8N in the beginning of summer it has been running great went out and it fired up as normal, took off down the road to my brother-in-laws house to do some small chores, it had no power. I had to run in second gear with the sherman in low at full throttle. Normally I run in third gear and high on the sherman transfer at half throttle. I shut it down at his house and now it won"t start. we pulled it and it would start but die as soon as any load was applied.

I took the carb apart cleaned it, getting good gas when I remove drain plug in Carb. I put heet and dry gas in the tank a while back to make sure water in the gas wouldn"t be a problem. I am getting good blue spark at the plugs.

If anyone has any ideas, I have run out. Winter is comming and I would like to use my brand new blade in the snow.

Front Mount Dist.,with a 12 Volt conversion.

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Dan Hill

12-11-2005 03:52:44




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 Re: It Just Died in reply to BKCRoberts, 12-05-2005 04:23:03  
I have found lawn mowers and chain saws with kerosene in their tanks.Bad gas will give plenty of trouble.Im still amazed by the large number of tractor owners who are trying to fix tractors without having a basic understanding of engines.buy a copy of Motors Auto repair Manuals.An old one from the 1950s is fine.I bought my first one in the early 50s.Ebay has them for sale.I bought one at a yard sale for 50 cents this summer.I have 5 copies and am looking for the first 1935 edition.These books have all the info you need to repair starters, generators, distributors, carburetors, fuel pumps etc.With some basic knowledge you can get an engine running without replacing a lot of expensive parts or worse yet converting to 12 volts.You can be a parts changer or a mechanic, the choice is yours..I find Prestone starting fluid very useful in starting engines that have been idle for long periods of time.Stale gas will give you plenty of no start problems.

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BillM (OH)

12-05-2005 19:30:17




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 Re: It Just Died in reply to BKCRoberts, 12-05-2005 04:23:03  
A stumper for sure.... I guess I would pull distributor next and make sure points are gapped correctly (.015) -- may have slipped almost closed and will still give good spark but at wrong time, hard starting and no power. While you're in there, check for free advance weights & do continuity and ground checks before your put it back on. When you're sure distributor is up to snuff, good gas flow, good plugs and battery charged, if still no power, suspect governor/throttle linkage for no power, but should not affect starting. Good luck!!!

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Charles (in GA)

12-05-2005 19:09:43




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 Re: It Just Died in reply to BKCRoberts, 12-05-2005 04:23:03  
How much gas is enough gas from the carb? Did you check the finger screen on the inlet fitting? Has someone added a inline gas filter? Bad move on a gravity feed system.

If you really do have a good hot blue spark, it sounds more like gas.

Charles



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Dell (WA)

12-05-2005 09:15:35




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 Re: It Just Died in reply to BKCRoberts, 12-05-2005 04:23:03  
Roberts..... ...you write "Put in the AL-437's over the weekend, still no go!" thats yer problem! seriously. Check yer firing order. 1,2,4,3 CCW. Thats:

sparkie #1 connected to nipple #1 at 10 o'clock
sparkie #2 connected to nipple #2 at 8 o'clock
simple, eh? now PAY ATTENTION 'cuz it gitts tricky here
sparkie #4 is connected to nipple #3 at 4 o'clock
sparkie #3 is connected to nipple #4 at 2 o'clock
therefore firing order is 1,2,4,3 CCW. Isn't that amazing?

Heres the deal, these N-Engines are SOOooo GOOD that they will start and run on just 2-cylinders. Most likely you swapped yer #4 & #3 sparkie wires when you installed new sparkies.

You may have already "flooded" yer new sparkies with INVISABLE contaminates and you will need to install NEW SPARKIES to gitt started. You can clean yer contaminated sparkies after you gitt yer engine running and warmed up. Change one-sparkie attta time and burn it clean. Now you will have a "spare-set" of clean & dry sparkies for the next time you flood yer engine..... ....Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister

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BKCRoberts

12-05-2005 10:10:38




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 Re: It Just Died in reply to Dell (WA), 12-05-2005 09:15:35  
The wires are "custom" cut to length from the previous owner so it is not possible to switch the 3 & 4.

I have had this problem for about a month, I only get to work on it on the weekends. This weekend was the first time with the new plugs.



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uh . . . Dell (WA)

12-05-2005 13:45:43




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 Re: It Just Died in reply to BKCRoberts, 12-05-2005 10:10:38  
Roberts..... ...check yer sparkie wires ennyways. Make certain that they are good old fashioned COPPER CORE instead of modern anti-static carbon core which is like glass and cracks and breaks when you remove them..... ....Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister



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DavidO

12-05-2005 07:01:53




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 Re: It Just Died in reply to BKCRoberts, 12-05-2005 04:23:03  
I know that soundguy knows the firing order and just had a typo. (Should be 1 2 4 3). There are a lot of things that "Could" cause your problem. Do you really have a good blue spark at all four plugs? Are you testing by actually holding the wire near the plug and letting it fire through the plug? If you really do have good spark and good fuel, then you may have a valve sticking or some other internal problem. I think that my first step would be to check the spark again "through the plugs" and go from there.

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BKCRoberts

12-05-2005 07:30:54




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 Re: It Just Died in reply to DavidO, 12-05-2005 07:01:53  
Did check spark thru the plugs (plug in wire grounded on the motor).



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DavidO

12-05-2005 08:22:48




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 Re: It Just Died in reply to BKCRoberts, 12-05-2005 07:30:54  
OK, Good plugs, good spark. Good fuel? I know that you said you had good fuel flow at the carb, but if you are turning it over a lot and it is not starting, the plugs should be wet with fuel. If not, we need to see why not. (Have you tried starting fluid?) If fuel and spark are getting to the plugs, we need to take a look at compression and timing? Do you have access to a good compression tester? Also does the engine seem to have compression when you are turning it over? i.e. does it turn over real fast like there is little or no resistance to the starter? Keep saying to yourself "If it has spark, fuel, compression and timing, it WILL crank and run". So, what is missing.

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BKCRoberts

12-05-2005 08:38:23




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 Re: It Just Died in reply to DavidO, 12-05-2005 08:22:48  
Have checked timing it's good. Tried starting fluid, no go.
As far as compression, I need to locate a tester. but it has always started and ran great until this point..... ..seems to turn over at the same rate.

Still the plugs were dry.



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DavidO

12-05-2005 09:24:05




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 Re: It Just Died in reply to BKCRoberts, 12-05-2005 08:38:23  
OK, usually when you loose the cam gear, you normally would notice a difference in how it turns over, depending on the nature of the failure. The plugs should not be dry if it is turning over a good bit, whether you have good spark or not. Tell me how you are using the starting fluid. Based on what you have said, I have a feeling that if you can get some fuel into the cylinders, it will crank and run.

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BKCRoberts

12-05-2005 10:32:57




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 Re: It Just Died in reply to DavidO, 12-05-2005 09:24:05  
I crank it for 10 sec. Max, giving it a shot every 2-3 sec.



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DavidO

12-05-2005 10:50:29




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 Re: It Just Died in reply to BKCRoberts, 12-05-2005 10:32:57  
How much of a "shot" and where are you "shooting" it in?



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BKCRoberts

12-05-2005 11:13:56




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 Re: It Just Died in reply to DavidO, 12-05-2005 10:50:29  
Press down and release quickly, removed air tube by choke flap.



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DavidO

12-06-2005 04:03:20




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 Re: It Just Died in reply to BKCRoberts, 12-05-2005 11:13:56  
Well, we gotta figure a way to get more into the cylinders than what you have been doing. I still feel like you have a fuel, or rather a no fuel in the cylinders problem. BE SURE THAT THE TRANSMISSION IS IN NUETRAL. Then, I would try a longer "burst" of starting fluid..about a full one to one and a half seconds. Then quickly crank the starter. The starting fluid evaporates very quickly and if you wait very long, it will not work at all. It should crank and run for a few seconds. If it dies, do it again. If it dies again, it is time to take another look at the carb and fuel filters.

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tim in pa

12-05-2005 06:38:55




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 Re: It Just Died in reply to BKCRoberts, 12-05-2005 04:23:03  
most often the symptoms you describe mean it's time for new plugs.



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BKCRoberts

12-05-2005 07:25:49




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 Re: It Just Died in reply to tim in pa, 12-05-2005 06:38:55  
Put in the AL-437's over the weekend, still no go!
It still has a strong blue spark.



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soundguy

12-05-2005 05:40:09




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 Re: It Just Died in reply to BKCRoberts, 12-05-2005 04:23:03  
Is it converted to 12v correctly? ( both ressitors on a 6v coil.. or a 12v coil with 1 resistor? etc.. )

Did you get the fire order correct? 1-2-3-4

Soundguy



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BKCRoberts

12-05-2005 06:06:42




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 Re: It Just Died in reply to soundguy, 12-05-2005 05:40:09  
I had to wire it myself (using the help of this board) and it has run great up into this point (3 or 4 months). And I have not messed with the plug wires since I got the tractor. The previous owner did a tuneup when he was trying to get it running.

I got the tractor very very cheap because he could not figure out how to wire it. It was "in the back of the field" on a farm he bought and "was to small for what he needed".

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OH Boy

12-05-2005 05:21:09




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 Re: It Just Died in reply to BKCRoberts, 12-05-2005 04:23:03  
Is it timed right? Sounds like spark may be retarded to much. Might want to check the centrifugal spark advance mechanism in distributor, perhaps it is gummed up and won't advance the spark like it is supposed to .



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