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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

Rust spots

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JerryS

07-05-2007 08:52:25




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I took the fenders off my '52 8N in order to sand and paint. There were numerous spots where the rust was showing through the original paint and the years-ago re-paint.

I've used paint remover to get to bare metal, but the fenders are liberally freckled with these liver spots, mostly dime-sized but some as big as my hand. The pitting does not seem to be deep, and the fenders appear to be in good, solid condition--no rust-throughs, or even anything that seems to come close to being all the way through.

So, do I sand all these spots down to bare metal? I don't mind doing that, but it seems I'd be grinding away a lot of metal. Or is there some way to neutralize the rust and prime over it.

Suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

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Rod (NH)

07-05-2007 17:15:16




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 Re: Rust spots in reply to JerryS, 07-05-2007 08:52:25  
Hi Jerry,

As Mike indicates, sandblasting is the best way to deal with rust spots prior to painting. However, the equipment is not always available to a DIY or it is not practical to do for some reason. Also, it is generally not practical to sand sufficiently deep to get to the bottom of any pitting and remove all rust. As a second best way to proceed, you can use a combination of sanding and wire brushing (preferably under power) and Picklex 20 to pretreat any remaining rust before priming. The best primer choice would be a two-part automotive epoxy.

Depending on any remaining visible sandscratches or pitting after the epoxy, additional products (e.g. finishing putty, surfacer) may be needed to obtain a completely smooth surface prior to topcoat color application.

third party image Rod

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JerrryS

07-06-2007 09:21:22




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 Re: Rust spots in reply to Rod (NH), 07-05-2007 17:15:16  

Thanks, Mike, Rod:

I am a rank novice at this, and I don't have access to sand. I do have wire brushes for my angle-head grinder, and I have a 6-inch DeWalt orbital sander. My goal is not to make a parade tractor, but to beautify and protect it (it was my Dad's) within the limitations of my means and abilities. It will still be a working tractor when it's done (though my JD 1020 will do all the grunt work from now on).

For these reasons I am not seeking perfection in my paint, though I don't want to paint over something I should/can fix. I am using Rustoleum in rattle cans partly because I don't know how to use a spray rig, and partly because my time limitations enable me to do a little bit at a time. Others may cringe, but so far I'm pleased with the results.

Rod, you mentioned Picklex: I went to their site and got the impression you have to order this direct. Is it available in stores?

Also, you mentioned putty to fill in pits. Brand name, please? Is the putty better to use than Bondo?

Thanks.

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Rod (NH)

07-06-2007 17:02:52




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 Re: Rust spots in reply to JerrryS, 07-06-2007 09:21:22  
Jerry,

As far as I know, Picklex 20 is not available in stores. At least I have never seen it sold in the three local places that sell automotive paint in my area. It is available from the manufacturer at the site I linked to. It is also available from a couple of other on-line retailers. It is a phosphoric-acid based product and is one of the more expensive of the many different formulations of such products that are currently available. A similar product, called The Must For Rust is readily available at Home Depot stores. That is a lot less expensive than the Picklex - but I have never tried it and have no personal experience with it.

Regarding the finishing putty, I've been using 3m's Flowable Finishing Putty for any filling of significant pits. You can see that in action on one of my tractor fenders here. There are similar products that perform the same function from other manufacturers. They should be available at any place that sells automotive refinishing supplies. I got my 3M putty from my local NAPA auto parts store. Yes, the finishing putty is a much better choice to use for rust pitts than "Bondo" or any of the similar variations of polyester fillers. The polyester putty is a more liquid product and is smoother. It is not used for filling larger imperfections and dents as the Bondo-type fillers are. As TimV says, it is the consistency of toothpaste and similarly smooth. I would not characterize it as "flowable" like the product advertising does, at least not in the common usage of that term. It is brushable however. It's not cheap. The last tube I got was about $35. There are other putties - notably the lacquer-based spot putties that also come in a tube - that could be used for minor pitting. They are single-component products that do not require an additive as do the polyesters. I believe the polyesters are now considered to be superior putties by many who use them. I know I do.

A lot depends on just how deep your pits are. If they are only a few thousandths deep, perhaps a surfacer (filler primer) product would do the trick, although I am not familiar with what might be available in rattle cans for that purpose, if anything.

Rod

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TimV

07-06-2007 18:32:22




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 Re: Rust spots in reply to Rod (NH), 07-06-2007 17:02:52  
I'll concur on the 3M flowable putty being superior to lacquer-based spot putties, but it might be a bit pricy for what he's got in mind, which is why I mentioned the spot putty instead. As far as a high-build primer, I use Plasti-Kote's "spot filler and primer". It's lacquer-based, but I've never had a compatibility problem under enamel or urethane. Works great for filling minor scuff marks or scratches with a few coats when there's not enough of it to bother breaking out the spray gun. Not saying it's the be-all-end-all, but it's the product of choice for most of the local pros I know, if for no other reason than that you can spray and be sanding in 15 minutes. Should be available at any decent auto store.

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TimV

07-06-2007 15:28:05




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 Re: Rust spots in reply to JerrryS, 07-06-2007 09:21:22  
Jerry: A few notes: Can't speak for Picklex 20 as I've never used it, though others seem to like it. Basically, most "rust neutralizers" use phosphoric acid for an active ingredient, and price varies with two factors--the strength of the phosphoric acid used and the amount they had to pay whomever endorsed it. Ospho and plain old Naval Jelly are two other phosphoric-acid-based neutralizers you may want to consider if you go this route--either should be available at a decent hardware store. With regard to Bondo vs. "finishing" or "spot" putty, just be careful about using Bondo generically--there are many different types of body filler available (Bondo-brand or not) that run the gamut from heavily fiberglass-filled down to very little if any fiberglass. What I'm assuming you're calling "Bondo" is what is usually referred to as a "light" body fill, with not much fiberglass. As a rule, the more fiberglass the more strength, but also the more difficult it is to get smooth. A typical lay-up is long-strand body fill at the bottom, short-strand (or light, or "bondo") on top of that, and finishing putty (which typically comes in a tube like toothpaste) to fill in the little pock marks and such at the very end. Finishing putty has no tensile strength to speak of, so if it's used in a spot prone to flexing, it will crack easily, particularly if it's put on in heavy layers. This holds true for all body-fill types, but it's especially true for finishing putty, which is only designed for filling the smallest imperfections. If that is all you have, then it can be used, but most people put down a coat of light body fill first and then use the finishing putty as a skim on top of that.

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Mike M

07-05-2007 10:03:08




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 Re: Rust spots in reply to JerryS, 07-05-2007 08:52:25  
I like to sandblast everything I can unbolt and do away from the main tractor so as not to get sand into the engine and tranny.

They sell rust neutralizers ,but I never had any luck with them on spots I touched up on cars.Seemed like just plain old paint was as good as anything under it first.



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