I'm getting lost with all the paint options

After going around a couple times on how to paint my tractor, I've decided I really don't want to "throttle back" on how it looks in the end. I've decided I want to put the effort into making it an exceptional show tractor, with smooth shiney cast, and deep rich red paint that looks like it should be on a Mercedez. Now, because I've no experience, I've decided that the tin (grill, hood, tank, and fenders) should be done by a pro shop. So I'm going to start shopping for a good/cheap place that will let me help prep (to save costs) if I can.

Right now, I'm cleaning parts by electrolysis, wire wheeling and sand blasting (not all for every part), to prep them for primer. I've decided to use an epoxy primer. I had used some rattle can Rustoleum primer, but found out I can't do that without messing things up later, so will be cleaning that off and starting over. I've also been told I need a high build primer surfacer over the epoxy to help smooth things out.

Before asking about paint, know this: I am going to use a friend's shop. He has a paint "room". But I don't think it's sealed, or anything like that. So I don't know how "clean" it is. He may do something to the inside to keep it dust/dirt free (or close), but it's not a fancy paint booth I've seen on TV. His tractors do look nice, though, so I guess it's gonna have to do.

Knowing that, what kind of paint should I use? This is where I get lost. I've been told that "Urethane" is the way to go. Strong, deep, and thick. I've also been told that an acrylic enamel is good. And I've seen a list of a bunch of other types that would be easier to use, because I've also heard that I need a supplied air system to paint urethane? Well crap! Don't have that! So, what else is there? Do I have to go with less of a paint because I can't breathe?

Anyway, my head is swimming with all the paint type options, and I'm lost. So looking for some opinions.

Did you get those front wheel bearings and seals done? How did the compression test go? And did you get the muffler done?

Gordo

Mike,

I'm a novice myself but I'll throw in my two cents worth since no one else has tried to answer your questions. This is an oversimplification of what's out there but this is how I would rank the different paint chemistries.

First, be aware that all hardners I'm aware of contain isocyanates. Most safety conscious people won't spray these w/o a supplied air system but many do. You can read through the archives and find many opinions on this subject.

The basic types of paint available to the DIY are:

[b:6dc3577f53]alkyd enamel [/b:6dc3577f53]- 1930's technology - Valspar/BPS at TSC, Van Sickle, Tisco, and some dealer supplied paints. Least fade resistant but cheap ($30/gal). Hardner is optional on most alkyds. It can be added to increase durability but won't decrease fading.

[b:6dc3577f53]modified alkyd enamel [/b:6dc3577f53]- same as above with uv additives to increase fade resistance. The 2150 sold by CASE-IH is supposed to be this type. Hardner is optional.

[b:6dc3577f53]acrylic enamel [/b:6dc3577f53]- 1960's technology - Available in most auto refinish brands. More durable and fade resistant than alkyd. Hardner is optional on many formulations of acrylic enamel but required on some. More expensive than alkyd.

[b:6dc3577f53]single stage urethane [/b:6dc3577f53]- 1980's technology - Available in most auto refinish brands. All urethanes i've looked at require hardners. More durable than acrylic enamel but also more expensive.

[b:6dc3577f53]two stage urethane [/b:6dc3577f53](BC/CC) - same as above but applied in a base coat (BC) of color followed by a clear coat (CC). Most durable and fade resistant type but also the most expensive.

For the do-it-yourselfer w/o a supplied air system the best option is epoxy primer followed by acrylic enamel w/o hardner on the cast. On the sheet metal a lacquer based surfacer can be used between the epoxy primer and acrylic enamel topcoat. Just be aware that the cure times on unhardened acrylic enamel are very long. This makes it hard to touch up or repair mistakes.

With a supplied air system you have more options. You can stick with acrylic enamel and add hardner or you can move up to urethane. Also on the sheet metal you can use a urethane based surfacer instead of of a lacquer based one.

I started out using acrylic enamel w/o hardner but ended up buying a supplied air system so I could use hardner. I did this mainly so I can quickly touch and repair my mistakes. On my next project I'll probably move up to urethane since I have the supplied air system.

First of all , and you probably reallized it after you printed it , "good" and "cheap" NEVER go together in the paint and body world. Second , are you going to grind your cast smooth or use a primer surfacer to build it up? You said you wanted the cast "smooth and shiny" If you are going to use the build primer method you are going to want to use a catylized urethane primer that will fill well AND chemically cure because of the extreme depth required to level cast profile. Uncatylized primer surfacers will cure through so slow that they will still be oozing solvents long after you paint. NOT GOOD. Bottom line is this:if you want the kind of results you describe in your post then get the supplied air (or rent one) and do it right and if it is the omly one you plan on doing then sell the unit when done. you will probably only lose 25%. Or better yet , rent it out until you pay for it that way. Don't use the "air dry" products for what you are asking .

Did you get those front wheel bearings and seals done? How did the compression test go? And did you get the muffler done?

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Waiting to paint them and the bolster before I put the new cups in. and install the wheels.

I have to find a compression tester, and I've been at work all week.

I have to buy the paint for the muffler. I think I'm going to get that Cast Blast you recommended.

I have no experience but I want it to look like a Mercedes. Yes as posted (Good and Cheap). Finally Urethane and Rustoleum together in the same post. My tractor friend we are here to help but there will need to be much divine intervention on this project.

Rick from N.C. thank you for that explanation.Don't know about mike ,but I sure needed it.What mike has not told you is that this state of calif has made it difficult for us to paint our tractors like used to. calif has gone to all water based paint.I have two tractors done in acrylic enamel w/hardeners and they are look great i.m.h.o. however, I did work on one and it is imposible to color match martin senour acryiic enamal to any water base paint, used all methods, computer,spray out, etc.I finally drove out of state to get acrylic enamal to touch up this tractor.Now for the big problem trying to restore a 400 farmall tried water based ppg omni get no depth. not even close to qaulity of old acrylic enamel. and pro shops are no help they have no clue what we are trying to accomplish and they are scared to death to deviate on paint. so i am trying to do with retired old painters and make shift booths. Sorry Rant over. any imput appreciated.

Sorry guys, that rant was from redgems

I assume that water based uses several toners just like the other paint. If so, if you can talk your dealer into spending some time (at your cost) into modifying the amounts of certain toners, you should get the color you like. However, exactly matching about any paint for an exact match is next to impossible, but you can get close. For painting a whole tractor, you should be able to get a satisfactory mix. For a 400, that is probably the red, orange, violet and black toners, provided the colors of the toners are similar to the oil based version. But, I know nothing about water based paint and don't look forward to having to figure it out.

If you have a shop do one thing and u do the other it will not look the same! Might be better just to have a shop do the tractor for you! U use one type of paint N brand they might use some other!

CNKS, thanks for imput,I am at wits end have tried working with my supplier everthing we try looks red in can turns more orange then red when sprayed out. I plan to keep after it but if push comes to shove i will just go 2150 from I.H.Its just so flat looking compared to the old martin senour #99n-224 with hardener.

cnks, i took a class couple months ago on water base. not too big a deal. the only thing so far water base is the base coat color. primers and sealers are all the same. the base coat is reduced with special super duper clean water (from the paint mfr), no heated booth was necessary for the water base, but basically fans and de-humidifiiers. the clear is just a standerd production urethane clear. at the time of the class, there was no waterbase clear available aftermarket. it was only being applied by the mfr. they were having too many problems getting satisfactory results in the field with the water borne clears.

So you put on a primer and a surfacer that are the same product you are using now. Then you apply water base color, and put urethane clear over that. Sounds like a typical govt thing, with very little change in "pollution". Current reducers are probably used as much for temperature differences as they are for "thinning". Wonder how they do that with the super duper distilled or deionized and/or reverse osmosis water? It would be nice to just dump a little in from a distilled water bottle. Do you need a different gun for the water base? I'm already using three, one for epoxy, one for surfacer and one for topcoat.

Add more violet, and you will need at least a 20% exchange between the orange and red, maybe 30. You probably need to get it too dark, and then work back. Valspar/CaseIH has or used to have a hardener for 2150. I can't say much because I have not used 2150.