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Overpowered

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Former gopher

10-03-2005 02:30:05




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Maybe I'm wrong about this, but does anybody else think there is a serious trend toward overpowered tractors on contemporary farms? Much greater horsepower, huge 4WD, etc for what I would have to consider small acreage. In northwest PA, for example, which is hardly big farm country one often sees guys out there with "big rigs" in a field your dad or grandpa would have handled with a John Deere 60 or Farmall M. Why is that? Or persuade me I'm wrong about it. (I'm willing to be educated if that is possible!! :}

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buickanddeere

10-03-2005 08:52:57




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 Re: Overpowered in reply to Former gopher, 10-03-2005 02:30:05  
An oversized machine working faster is cheaper than hiring extra employees.



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RodinNS

10-03-2005 14:31:23




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 Re: Overpowered in reply to buickanddeere, 10-03-2005 08:52:57  
True.
Another reason for the larger tractors is the fact that the gear is larger, heavier, and a good deal more demanding. Anyone that thinks an 8n can do the raking these days, with a modern rake, needs to try it and then tell me the story of how it went. I made a small mistake with a new rake I bought this year. I got a mounted 14' Kuhn, and then found out that my faithful old 4000 couldn't quite lift the darn thing. The old doll just didn't have the lift capacity. So, the 3930 got the job of raking, and that was dicey without weight. So, the rake did spend a day on the 7710 on the bad hills. And yes, it went like he!l all day. The flip side is that it covered a lot of ground, and made it possible to cover a lot of ground with the baler at the same time. That wasn't possible with the smaller old rake..... .. So yes, you need the larger modern tractors for these jobs....
Although, I did like the 3930 for the job myself. The odd hop and jump added some excitement to a boring day, and power wise it was fine.

Rod

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kyhayman

10-03-2005 06:46:00




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 Re: Overpowered in reply to Former gopher, 10-03-2005 02:30:05  
I agree completely with your observation, I'm in excatly that condition. When a worn out 8N brings $4500, and a cream puff 7610 Ford black stripe brings $7500, I'll take the newer diesel with 86 hp and pull a hay rake with it. I'm in the same boat as most folks, I farm full time (600 acres, half in intensive alfalfa, half management intensive grazing cattle), no doubt about it but I've got a 40-50 hour per week off farm job. My tractors have to work, have to have a back up if they dont, and need to be sized to get work done. Bargains are in the big tractors, lots aof very nice 100-120 hp tractors sell around here for around $5000, worn out 8N's and 801's bring over 4000 and a lot of worn out 3000's bring in the $7000's

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Galen

10-04-2005 02:01:43




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 Re: Overpowered in reply to kyhayman, 10-03-2005 06:46:00  
Remind me not to buy a tractor in Kentucky! In Nebraska a GOOD 8N, usually with an implement or two, is still under $2000 most times. Everyone has thier own needs, but for me my 8N does most of the work around my 101 acres (and a lot for neighbors, too). I have a couple of larger HP machines around, but they don't get used a lot. I figure, if my Dad could run this place with a Farmall C,H and M, there ain't no reason I can't. I'm not rich enough to lay down the cash for a bigger/newer machine. BIL spent $23,000 on a new 30 HP yuppie tractor that can't do a lot of things my 8N can. I can do a LOT of repairs for the difference in price. A lot of it is ego. You can do a lot with the older/smaller machines (your Grand Dad & Dad did), you just have to want to.

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Joe in IN

10-03-2005 07:31:59




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 Re: Overpowered in reply to kyhayman, 10-03-2005 06:46:00  
100-120hp for $5K. They must not be green...

What kind of tractors in the HP class are only 5K. I may need to drive to KY....



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kyhayman

10-03-2005 17:43:08




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 Re: Overpowered in reply to Joe in IN, 10-03-2005 07:31:59  
You are correct, they arent green. Wouldnt know the pricing on them, not my flavor. That price will get you any big Case made before 1980 with powershift (1070, 1090, etc). Newer ones (2090, etc are a little more but not bad, last 2090 I bought I gave $7000 for, off the farm. If they arent powershift figure double the money. IH 1066, 1206; and some of the big MF and Allis. Mostly at consignment sales.

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Hurst

10-03-2005 11:43:42




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 Re: Overpowered in reply to Joe in IN, 10-03-2005 07:31:59  
I bought my allis 7000 for 7500 dollars. It has A/C, radio, heat and a nice quite cab. The engine is in great shape and the rubber was all atleast 80% around. Honestly, if I had all the money in the world, why would I want a deere anyway? Just so I know that half of the price of the tractor went to pay for BILLBOARDS for AG TRACTORS?!? I don't think you need to come to Ky (which is where I live and it is still a pretty strong allis country out here), you just need to look past the color of the paint. Allis 190xts go for under 5000, thats a series 3 in good running order, ready to hit the field. Also, AGCO still supports allis very well. Fords are another option. While the 10 series fords resell higher than most jds do, they were a lot cheaper new than a JD. Its all in the color. JD was good at marketing and that is where your extra 10000 dollars go.

Hurst

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Jonfarmer

10-03-2005 10:02:23




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 Re: Overpowered in reply to Joe in IN, 10-03-2005 07:31:59  
Oh there are some in that hp rage for just $5,000. Look into Allis Chalmers 190XT, and 200. The old 2wd white "field boss" series from the 1970's go for that. Now those rigs are not the cats meow, but they do get the job done. At the right auction you can pick up excellent tractors in that hp range for cheaper than that. One that comes to mind was an Oliver 1950T down the road when the farmer decided to retire, they practically gave his stuff away, sold that Oliver for a mere $2,900, and it was in nice shape, 2wd, and had just come out of the shop the week before after recieving engine work, so it was 100% ready to go, but it didn't have the over/under trans. $2,900 for a 110hp tractor!, whatta buy!, just it was nothing I needed, so I didn't bid.

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James2

10-03-2005 07:03:31




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 Re: Overpowered in reply to kyhayman, 10-03-2005 06:46:00  
I don't understand how you are a full time farmer, yet have a 40-50 hour off-farm job. Please explain.



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Redmud

10-03-2005 08:47:41




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 Re: Overpowered in reply to James2, 10-03-2005 07:03:31  
It's a tuff row to hoe, but there are lot's of tuff guy's hoe'in em.



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Mike (WA)

10-03-2005 08:10:25




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 Re: Overpowered in reply to James2, 10-03-2005 07:03:31  
It's called either "burning the midnight oil", or more probably, "burning the candle at both ends". I watched my dad do it with a dairy farm in the '50's- milked 40 cows at about 4:30 AM (I'm pretty sure of the time, because I had to get up and go round them up in the pasture), then work an 8 hour day as a carpenter. Primary incentive to do this is the fact that most farmers would rather be farmers than their day job, and hope things will get profitable enough that they can quit the day job. For some, it does; for most, it doesn't. I wanted to be a farmer until well into my late 30's, but now, am glad I gave up the dream. I'd have just gone broke, like everyone else around here.

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RustyFarmall

10-03-2005 07:09:20




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 Re: Overpowered in reply to James2, 10-03-2005 07:03:31  
James2, not too hard to understand really, when you find out how little actual profit there is in farming. The farm may generate enough money to pay for itself, but there won't be any money left over for the farmer to feed and house his family, so the farmer takes a full time job in town also.



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James2

10-03-2005 10:03:17




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 Re: Overpowered in reply to RustyFarmall, 10-03-2005 07:09:20  
Really don't question the need for an outside job, and I farm enough to know returns can be tight. However, when someone refers to themselves as a full time farmer, I assume that farming provides the majority,if not all of the income. Accordingly, they have at most, only a part-time off-farm job. Now if he raises beef, and spends most of his time finding customers, and otherwise selling his product, I consider it a farm related activity and still a full time farmer. If he is working 50-60 hours on an off-farm job, I struggle with the label, "full time farmer". Since it is so dfficult to survive on a farm income, I believe it is best to reserve the title "full time farmer", for those whom can actually accomplish this feat.

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sammy the RED

10-03-2005 16:28:40




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 Re: Overpowered in reply to James2, 10-03-2005 10:03:17  
How about "Full Time Sundown Farmer" ?



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James2

10-03-2005 19:19:23




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 Re: Overpowered in reply to sammy the RED, 10-03-2005 16:28:40  
With that label, he either is a relative of Dracula or has some other job in addition to farming. Sounds good to me.



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Jonathan Brown

10-03-2005 12:40:04




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 Re: Overpowered in reply to James2, 10-03-2005 10:03:17  
When you start labling people you confuse your self. My grandpa had a full time job and he was a full time farmer as well. he raised cattle and he rasied crops. sure he worked fourty hours in town, but he worked a lot more time on the farm. He maily worked the factory job in order to provide medical insurance and retirment. buy the way after he retired he did quit farming as much as well. and then he would admit it was more of a hobbie just farming the fourty acres at home and the 25 he still rented. But there was a time he farmed almost 600 acres all buy himself with nothing more that a 340 row crop and a farmall c. so I guess he was not a farmer in your eyes either. But he did have the honor passing away in the seat of his tractor. if there is a better way to go? hell no.

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Jonfarmer

10-03-2005 06:41:15




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 Re: Overpowered in reply to Former gopher, 10-03-2005 02:30:05  
Corperate farming is taking over. What your seeing is their big equipment and they have several farms that they take care of with them. We have older equipment, but I've had the oppurtunity to operate some of the bigger stuff and I gotta tell you that I don't want to go back to smaller stuff afterwards. Most of the farmers around here have atleast 5,000 gallon liquid manure spreaders, so thats 8lbs to the gallon plus the weight of the spreader, I have pulled one this size with 140hp, but it was really too much for the tractor, ruined the clutch in short order and thank god for spreader brakes because 40,000lbs of liquid manure is way too much for a 12,000lb tractor to stop in a hurry. I'd highly reccomend more hp and 4wd to tow a spreader like that. So chores like that require big tractors, but I have seen people using 150+hp 4wds to tow a hayrake which is absolutly rediculous.

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RustyFarmall

10-03-2005 05:54:52




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 Re: Overpowered in reply to Former gopher, 10-03-2005 02:30:05  
There is an overabundance of used farm tractors in the 90 to 150 horsepower class, making them relatively inexpensive compared to the price of a new smaller tractor. It is very difficult to find a good used farm tractor in the under 100 horsepower class, except for older tractors which quite often are pretty well used up.



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Phil Munson NY

10-03-2005 05:26:35




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 Re: Overpowered in reply to Former gopher, 10-03-2005 02:30:05  
Do your eyes deceive you? I doubt it.

One of the former Agway plant managers shared with me his thoughts on this very subject. And He, like you, noticing the flagrant HP surplus observed that farms with two and a half to three times the necessary equipment were farming for "show" instead of for "dough".

Any hay rake that needs 95 to 150 HP to operate, instead of 10 or 15, would make GOOD trading material in my world!

Enjoy the day, its a beauty! best, Phil

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Mike M

10-03-2005 05:00:31




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 Re: Overpowered in reply to Former gopher, 10-03-2005 02:30:05  
Alot of small acre fields in Ohio where I'm at it seems like the big boys rent alot of farms and drive all over the roads to get there.They use real big equipment get in and get out and on to the next one.



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dhermesc

10-03-2005 05:43:29




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 Re: Overpowered in reply to Mike M, 10-03-2005 05:00:31  
That has been my observation here in Kansas also. Huge amounts of farm land is being rented. Two of my brothers cover well over 2500 acres of their own row crop and they custom hire to a lot of the "small guys". When you compare hp to acre covered they actually have less then my dad did back in the 1950s when he farmed with Ms and Hs.

Then you have the "part time" farmers like my brother in law who has about 600 acres of row crop with a full time job, when he hits the field he needs to git-r-done. Break downs cost him double in time when he can't start till 6:00 in the evening, parts store won't open up for you at 10:00 pm no matter how much you beg.

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Allan in NE

10-03-2005 04:32:22




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 Re: Overpowered in reply to Former gopher, 10-03-2005 02:30:05  
Mornin' Gopher,

The big boys do what the big boys gotta do.

Actually, this is a good thing, 'cause it leaves more bargins fer us little fellers. :>)

Allan



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jfp

10-03-2005 04:27:50




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 Re: Overpowered in reply to Former gopher, 10-03-2005 02:30:05  
I think all of you are right in what you say but , the price of a compact tractor is as much as a larger one. You can only use the large one for ag. work while the demand is more for the compacts in different chores , thus making the price too high. I can buy an ol' big red cheaper than a Kubota compact which is a good tractor just overpriced to me.



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VADAVE

10-03-2005 03:50:47




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 Re: Overpowered in reply to Former gopher, 10-03-2005 02:30:05  
I agree that larger tractors are appearing on small farms. However, there is some rationale for this--A larger tractor can pull bigger impliments which translates to less time to complete a tillage task. With the return from farming today very few individuals casn afford to farm full time(or to put it another way--almost all farmers must work an off-farm job) and therefore completeing tasks quicker is important.
There is also a limit as to tractor size--a articulated tractor on 5 acres makes no sense at all. But then I content that 5 acres does not a farm make.

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Nebraska Cowman

10-03-2005 03:47:29




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 Re: Overpowered in reply to Former gopher, 10-03-2005 02:30:05  
No, you are not wrong. I can't justify expensive equipment for a few hours a year use. But your neighbor gets to pay his own bills. Like Jesus said in the Bible, "The poor will always be with us"



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Stickler

10-03-2005 08:35:37




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 Re: Overpowered in reply to Nebraska Cowman, 10-03-2005 03:47:29  
The 50-120hp stuff goes for the cheapest around my neck of the woods. Not big enough for the big boys doing thousands upon thousands of acres, but too big for the little guy without a real use for it. I routinely see good running stuff like IH 656, 666, 686, Massey 90 or Case 930 or 1030 going for less than rough Ford 9N/2N/8N's or old farmalls in the same class. The older midsized stuff is cheap hp until they break, that is. But for the prices they go for, you're often better off just buying another one than fixing one. Even the big boys usually keep a smaller tractor around just for chores and yard work and such, but they have no real use for the midrange stuff.

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Drill

10-03-2005 10:40:33




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 Re: Overpowered in reply to Stickler, 10-03-2005 08:35:37  
Using a 100HP tractor on a 60HP job will use less fuel than a 60HP tractor on the same job. Also grandpa would put in 18 hrs days to get the job done, which the younger generation dosen't want to do anymore.



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