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O/T how do you patent an idea??

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old

11-18-2007 20:35:13




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I have an idea for something, sorry I will not tell you what. Any how if I could figure out how to patent it believe me it would help any body that runs a tractor or any other open machine that is water cooled. So how does one patent and idea??
Thanks




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I Wanna Farmall

11-19-2007 15:38:10




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 Re: O/T how do you patent an idea?? in reply to old, 11-18-2007 20:35:13  
You can trust me, buddy!!! (smirk)


I would call the county courthouse, they will probabally be able to direct you. Have fun!



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Dick L

11-19-2007 09:16:13




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 Re: O/T how do you patent an idea?? in reply to old, 11-18-2007 20:35:13  
I have applied for several patents. I developed the products had the proper drawings drawn up and submitted them. The last one cost me several hundred dollars and then was advised not to give the final information to complete it and to set up a system to hold it as trade secrets instead.
The patent office had said that they would issue three patents instead on one and ask me to define materials in such a narrow definition that it would be easy to get around. You need a good patent lawyer to keep from having a road map to steal your products.

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Walt Davies

11-19-2007 09:15:54




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 Re: O/T how do you patent an idea?? in reply to old, 11-18-2007 20:35:13  
One big problem is the saying "Not invented here" That is almost all companies won't touch anything that there people did not invent as they hate to pay royalties. Remember the guy with the intermittent wipers he had to sue Ford to get his money they just stole the idea and made a few changes and said it was theirs. They lost and paid him Millions.
You can take it to some tractor companies and see if the are interested you may luck out but I would just say hey I got a good idea and let it go at that because you just can't beat the big money with your own big money to fight them. Remember you get the patent they just wait till it runs out and then get it free they can wait forever you can't.
Walt

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135 Fan

11-19-2007 14:01:26




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 Re: O/T how do you patent an idea?? in reply to Walt Davies, 11-19-2007 09:15:54  
Just letting the patent office know about it can prevent someone from stealing your idea. Even your idea can't have been known about or considered something that would need to be done anyway. I have read that it's best to mail yourself a registered letter with your idea in it and also have a notary stamp and date your letter. This gives you absolute proof of when you came up with the idea. Usually to copy a patent and be OK, only minor changes are needed depending on how complex it is. Many machines have several patents that work hand in hand. I know someone with a patented product and they said all they have to do to extend the patent is change it by 10% and they can do this indefinately. It is very expensive to get a patent. That's why some products are just flooded on the market to sell a whole bunch before they're copied. You have to be very careful taking your product to someone who might buy the rights to it or manufacture it. They could steal your idea. Usually manufacturers won't be interested in buying your invention unless you already have the patent. Like the intermittent wipers and the rising rate suspension used on dirt bikes. The inventors won in court on these but paid a fortune in legal fees. They did come out ahead in the end. Polaroid sued Kodak over the instant camera and won millions and all Kodak instant cameras became obsolete. Years ago my dad used to have fold up ramps that he mounted on the tailgate of the work trucks for loading smaller machines. These were patented. The manufacturer with the patent stopped making them and someone else started to make a very similar product. The original manufacturer found out and all that happened was the copycat ramps had to be discontinued. No money was paid to the patent holder. Taiwan doesn't recognize patents and maybe none of China does. That's why everything that's copied comes from there. Sometimes it is best to just market you product to death and hope to sell a whole bunch of units before they are copied. A lot of people mistake the term "Patent Pending" for a patent. It is not a patent. It means they are in the process of applying for a patent and are pending the results of a patent search. It is supposed to be illegal to put "Patent Pending" on a product that isn't in the process of getting a patent but I'm sure it is done all the time. Patents can take up to 3 years to finalize and someone could come up with a similar product in that time and sell it. I'm not trying to discourage you. I invented a tool for use on golf courses and thought about patenting it. It got rave reviews but would have been very expensive and time consuming to patent it. A lawyer who actually built his own golf course was so impressed with it that he wanted to mass produce it. He was good friends with my dad for several years. Only problem was he passed away unexpectedly and I never got my working model back. I could make another one and I think about it all the time. It would have cost around $100 and there are thousands of golf courses that could have purchased one or more of the tools. It was superior to everything else on the market. Maybe I should make another one. Good luck with your invention. All the red tape and cost is the real pain in the azz. Dave

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Jeff-oh

11-19-2007 13:54:36




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 Re: O/T how do you patent an idea?? in reply to Walt Davies, 11-19-2007 09:15:54  
I think I heard of Ford doing that same thing back in ohhhh 19 hundert and '48. Seems to me they had to pay old Harry Ferguson for infringement on his 3 pt design...


I guess it never changes.



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135 Fan

11-19-2007 14:08:47




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 Re: O/T how do you patent an idea?? in reply to Jeff-oh, 11-19-2007 13:54:36  
Ford had to pay Harry Ferguson around $10,000,000. It was peanuts considering Ford sold over 500,000 8N's. Later model tractors had the system altered just enough to be considered different. Perhaps Ferguson should have had more patents on his 3 pt. He would have sold zillions more tractors if he had the only 3 pt. hitch. The later MF 3 pt. has the best control though. Dave



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Jerry/MT

11-19-2007 08:59:48




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 Re: O/T how do you patent an idea?? in reply to old, 11-18-2007 20:35:13  
Old,

John T has given you some excellent advice. I have three patents that I obtained while working in the aircraft industry and I assigned the rights to the compny I worked for. They paid for the entire patent process and the process took 2-3 years to get through. Not only must you have a good idea, you must reduce it to practice, via drawings, prototypes and/or working models.

If you are going to follow through on this, you should keep a note book on all the information you have developed for the device and date the entries. I can"t emphasize this enough. If someone challenges your idea, this notebook is your only proof of the chronology of the idea"s development and would be usefull to settle any disputes that might arise. Occasionally, you should have somebody you trust witness and sign the notebook, providing you with evidence of witnessed dates.

Good luck!

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Jeff-oh

11-19-2007 13:49:33




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 Re: O/T how do you patent an idea?? in reply to Jerry/MT, 11-19-2007 08:59:48  
Two non-related Somebodies are better.



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John T Country Lawyer

11-19-2007 06:10:23




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 Re: O/T how do you patent an idea?? in reply to old, 11-18-2007 20:35:13  
Good luck with it Rich, as an ex engineer I considered going into intellectual property law (I did take an elective course and enjoyed it) but would have to have moved to a big city and became a real lawyer versus a laid back semi retired Country Lawyer so that was that lol.

First of all just an "idea" is not something you can get a patent for, it has to be developed into a new and useful system or process or machine or way of doing something thats NOT already been issued patent protection, although, its normal for such to start as merely an idea so hang in there. What Im saying is you obviously cant obtain patent protection for some "idea", you have to be able to develop and demonstrate something (machine, system, process) new and useful..... .... The patent office simply doesnt get into issuing protection for ideas.... They like engineering drawings and prototypes and well laid out very descriptive information to be able to evaluate what youre seeking protection for and whether or not its already been granted.

Sure its gonna cost you some bucks, but Id advise you to seek an initial very preliminary consultatiuon with a well known reputable Patent Attorney (a specialist in intellectual property law ONLY,,,,,NOT any general practitioner) who can listen and counsel you BEFORE you ever get to the point of a full blown patent search which takes some time n skill n bucks. Once you obtain such a patent, the next step would be to license it to a manufacturing or production n marketing
type firm to manufacture n market the product.

As Im sure youre aware, this is NOT something that can be settled here and there are all sorts of lay opinions floating around out there but its good to toss things out n hear others experiences before you venture out. It is a good idea to well document and protect what you have so far, but be aware if someone else has the same thing in mind its a "race" to the patent office and first one there wins, i.e if Joe Blow beats you to the office with an identical application he wins n you looseeeee eee grrrrr rrrr

NOTE say your idea is to manufacture some sort of tool that farmers and mechanics etc would use n buy YOU DONT NECESSARILY NEED A PATENT to make n sell it (if someone else already has patent protection believe me you will hear about it lol), find a company to make n market it and "go for it" When you see all those Ronco type gizmos n gadgets on TV and even where some say patent applied for, most of those neither have a patent nor is one available, someone had an "idea" for a product (probably not patentable in the first place) n hired the Acme Widget Co. to make it n found a firm to advertise it on late night TV PERIOD..... MOST LIL GIZMOS N GADGETS OR MANY FARM OR OTHER TOOLS ETC CANT EVEN BE ISSUED PATENT PROTECTION IN THE FIRST PLACE. It has to be a new n useful n somewhat unique machine system or tool or process or way of doing something i.e say I wanted to make something simple like a claw hammer etc with an extra side attachment for some weird purpose, the office wouldnt grant me patent protection for that.

DONT GET DISCOURAGED RICH, if your idea is something that can be developed and demonstrated and is new n useful n unique it may be afforded patent protection n will require an attorney n a search etc buttttt tttt even if not, if you can find a firm to manufacture n market it theres nuttin stoppin you and that Patent Attorney can still help to first determine if its something that has patent protection already BEFORE you try to make n market it

FIND A PATENT ATTORNEY AND HAVE AN INITIAL CONSULATION I would be wary of these TV ads concerning takign your ideas to them lol

John T Country Lawyer in Indiana

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Tradititonal Farmer

11-19-2007 08:22:13




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 Re: O/T how do you patent an idea?? in reply to John T Country Lawyer, 11-19-2007 06:10:23  
Yep and if its a really good idea you'll have about how long it takes to ship some containers from China before the market is flooded with copies(LOL)



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jack-iowa

11-19-2007 06:32:37




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 Re: O/T how do you patent an idea?? in reply to John T Country Lawyer, 11-19-2007 06:10:23  
In the computer world all you need is a paper idea describing how such and such works for protocols,phone calls etc.no real working model needed.



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John T

11-19-2007 06:47:51




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 Re: O/T how do you patent an idea?? in reply to jack-iowa, 11-19-2007 06:32:37  
Fer sure this new technology has improved things (some at least lol) but one still needs more then just "Hey I have this great idea" when you file a formal patent application, the how "such works" you mentioned is good advice n first step for Rich to research n develop to get all his ducks lined up in a row, I wish him the best of luck n hope I didnt discourage him. The more good detailed n precise info you can give the poor shmuck at the patent office the better in my opinion provided you dont overdo it n bury him in useless non essential details lol

Yall take care now

John T

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omahagreg

11-19-2007 04:55:13




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 Re: O/T how do you patent an idea?? in reply to old, 11-18-2007 20:35:13  
I knew a guy in town, who owned several patents. I remodeled his house for him, so had time to talk about some of the expenses related, etc. His last one was a simple plastic/rubber wedge that sell for .25 each, used for leveling tables in restaurants, etc. By the time he was ready to sell his first one, he had $10,000.00 in it-patent, die for mold, first order processed, etc. Money seems to be the main requirement. Greg

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Janicholson

11-19-2007 04:22:39




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 Re: O/T how do you patent an idea?? in reply to old, 11-18-2007 20:35:13  
Dear Old. I own two patents. The process is one of documentation and records. Do not let anyone know of your idea or concepts. Put it on paper with the best details you can make drawings and simple notes on the drawings. Send copies to a (very close) friend by registered mail and have them put it on a shelf not opened. Search uspto.gov for similar devices by thinking of at least 20 things like it or named to do similar things and spend 20 hours doing it. Believe me they do that at the other end as well, to discredit your idea. Make one of them so it works, but do not show it. Remove it from sight. When you are convinced, find a real patent attorney. If it is a principle of operation it may cost moer than 6000 to get a utility patent. If it is a specific design, it might be as little as 1500 to 2000. Keep in touch, I'll help. JimN

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old

11-19-2007 07:10:02




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 Re: O/T how do you patent an idea?? in reply to Janicholson, 11-19-2007 04:22:39  
Well I see one BIG problem I would have. I don't have the $$ to do more then think about it. I know if I could spend the $$ to get one working it would sell and be used by a lot of people but, I just don't have the $$ to do more then think about it



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Gerald J.

11-19-2007 08:17:14




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 Re: O/T how do you patent an idea?? in reply to old, 11-19-2007 07:10:02  
You have misunderstood the worth of the patent. It gives you NO protection. Its only a piece of evidence you can try to use to prove you had the idea first. Its kind of a license to let you hire an attorney (or a dozen) to defend it in court or to sue others for patent infringement. Without court actions it has very little value in intellectual property protection, in fact it gives away that intellectual property. That makes it easier to be copied or worked around.

You say you don't have the bucks to get the patent. Then you don't have the big bucks to protect the patent. You can't play the game. The only way you can win is to make a bunch, sell them and then forget about them as if they are good they will be copied and improved upon by many others around the world. If there's some secret formula, keep it as a secret, though in today's world MSDS give away most of the details of any such formula and you can't sell industrially without the MSDS.

With the billions of thinking beings on this planet, its quite possible your idea has been invented and tossed away three times in recorded history. Do the on-line patent search, you will be amazed at what has already been done, as I have noted many times in my engineering career, "Its damn hard to invent a NEW wheel!"

Gerald J.

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Paul from MI

11-19-2007 03:47:31




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 Re: O/T how do you patent an idea?? in reply to old, 11-18-2007 20:35:13  
Real trick is to make some money with the patent after you get it. I've seen a lot of guys invest a lot of money in good ideas that went nowhere because there wasn't any one to build it, distribute it, or sell it. I speak from some experience, having nine patents myself. All of them were commercial sucesses, but none of them would have been without the resources of my employer. By myself they would have all gone nowhere. Hope yours is one of the really good ones, but be cautious. Good luck, Old. Glad to here your family is doing better.
Paul

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MarkB_MI

11-19-2007 03:25:28




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 Re: O/T how do you patent an idea?? in reply to old, 11-18-2007 20:35:13  
The first thing you need to do is perform a patent search to see if your idea is already patented. In the past you had to pay somebody to do this. Now that the Patent Office has made every patent ever issued available on-line, you can do the search yourself.



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Howard H.

11-18-2007 21:25:50




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 Re: O/T how do you patent an idea?? in reply to old, 11-18-2007 20:35:13  

One of my college buddies specializes in patent law - he works for himself and stays busy at $250/hour.

So a person has to be pretty sure of the idea to hire him to get the patent.

You might want to research your idea first to make sure there is no prior art work or reference to anything similar - if there is, it will drastically affect you being able to obtain a patent.

Here is the main gov site with a lot of good info:

Link

Good luck!
Howard

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RobMD

11-18-2007 20:47:39




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 Re: O/T how do you patent an idea?? in reply to old, 11-18-2007 20:35:13  
First you need to find a patent agent who will document your idea and fill out a form to register for a patent.

Only then it is up to the United States patent office to compare with other patents and see if yours will pass by other pending patents.

This can take months - sometimes up to 2 years.

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RobMD

11-18-2007 20:47:03




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 Re: O/T how do you patent an idea?? in reply to old, 11-18-2007 20:35:13  
First you need to find a patent agent who will document your idea and fill out a form to register for a patent.

Only then it is up to the United States patent office to compare with other patents and see if yours will pass by other pending patents.

This can take months - sometimes up to 2 years.

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Stockdale Dave

11-18-2007 20:40:16




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 Re: O/T how do you patent an idea?? in reply to old, 11-18-2007 20:35:13  
I believe you must contact a patent attorney for investigation of infringement and then apply for patent. Sure someone will jump in if there is more to be done.



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rustyj

11-19-2007 15:55:59




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 Re: O/T how do you patent an idea?? in reply to Stockdale Dave, 11-18-2007 20:40:16  
Don't get sucked in by those so-called patent getters, that advertise on TV! They'll tell you your idea is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but, you'll have to pony up more money for research, then more money for title searches, all kinds of things that cost big bucks, and when they think you are about spent out, and they have milked you dry-they'll drop you like a hot potato, and go away with all yer gold, and guess what you'll be left holding?? Thats right--the empty bag! I had a friend who invented a neat plastic fish attracter that ya hooked on yer fishing line, and it really worked! Then he got cheated by those folks, they stole his idea, and he spent thousands trying to get his product back from them. Never did. they changed one thing, and he lost out!

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