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Allis WD with hard knock. Need some advice.

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awcmail

09-29-2006 19:07:03




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Hello all and thanks in advance for any feedback.

I have a WD I bought at the beginning of this season. It's my first tractor and I bought it to try to mow my 10 or so acres as well as some brush hogging. Well as my luck (or inattentiveness) would have it the thing lasted me almost 3 mows maybe 10-12 hours of use before croaking on me.

It had a slight knock while under load since I got it but barely noticeable. After mowing for about an hour I noticed steam coming out the right side. I shut it down and found a radiator leak, very low fluid, oil dripping off the bottom and very low oil (which hadn't been the case a couple hours of use before). Now it has a pretty noticeable knock while at idle and a pretty hard one under load. It still runs fine but something is obviously wrong. My father in law knows these tractors pretty well and he thinks it sound like crank bearing. I made some calls about getting it fixed and the unseen estimate was 1500-3000. Well I paid 3000 for it in the first place so the high end would seem like a bad option. I'm kind of a hack as a mechanic but I can follow instructions in a book and do take on tasks a little over my head usually with success but it's no gimmie.


My questions are...
Does it sound like a crank bearing?
Is 1500-3000 a normal price ballpark for something like this?
Would I be a fool to get the right documentation and try it myself?
If I did and it was the bearing can I just have them packed and move on?
If I did is there anyway to check it from underneath? I had trouble getting the pan out once removed but haven’t really tried yet.
Would I be better off running it until it dies and then just replace the engine? It seemed to run very strong before this.

Thanks again for any help.

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awcmail

02-05-2007 14:36:15




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 Re: Allis WD with hard knock. Need some advice. in reply to awcmail, 09-29-2006 19:07:03  
Well it's all figured out. Just wanted to update the board. Turns out I spun a main bearing. Also turns out I know alot more about this stuff now than I did before. I found a guy who seems to know Allises like the back of his hand to rebuild it for me. The good new is there are no real signs of overheating and the head is good. The bad news is upon inspection most of the internals are nearing the end of their life (Looks like it hasn't had a rebuild since '56) so I'm just going ahead and doing a ful rebuild. Everything but the valve train. I really wanted to try it myself especially after having the mechanic take me through the thing part by part but I digress. Total cost is going to be around $1500. Kind of hugh considering I could get a new one for about the same but everything else inside looks solid still. This way I should have a long term solution. That is until the next thing breaks.

Thanks for all the help and Happy plowing!

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Ken L.

10-01-2006 07:37:06




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 Re: Allis WD with hard knock. Need some advice. in reply to awcmail, 09-29-2006 19:07:03  
Just another thought. The knock could be a wrist pin. Just overhauled a 60 Oliver that had the pin bushings broken on one cyl. If your even half way mechanically inclined, you can do it yourself. Those older tractors are easy to do. If you've never done it before, make sure you've got the right books and don't be afraid to ask questions. I wouldn't be surprised that if you check it out and the bearings are bad, you will find out that you should do a complete overhaul. Then you will know that your engine will be good. Yes, you could junk it out and get a different one but, will that one be better or worse than what you already have?

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awcmail

10-06-2006 14:01:21




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 Re: Allis WD with hard knock. Need some advice. in reply to Ken L., 10-01-2006 07:37:06  
Well I got the day off so I pulled the pan today to check the crank bearings. First of all should I have had to remove the (sorry not sure what to call it) bar across the front of the pan that connects to a plate that act as a pivot point for the front tires about a foot back from the axel? From what I've found on the net I shouldn't of had too but the pan sure wouldn't come out with it on.

In any event I assume that if a "worn" bearing is my problem there should be some play in the piston? There doesn't seem to be. They all move along the length of the crank less than a millemeter but I don't expect that's a problem. There is however some scraps of metal in the pan. They are all thinly sliced pieces up to 3" long and maybe 1/8 inch wide. If you added up how many 3" long pices I could make I'd say 3.

Ideas?

Thanks!

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Texas Denny

09-30-2006 14:58:24




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 Re: Allis WD with hard knock. Need some advice. in reply to awcmail, 09-29-2006 19:07:03  
I saw a WD-45 running engine on Ebay last week. Bid at the time was $250. For a complete rebuild, $1500 is fair. $3000 is too much. Parts for rebuild of the cylinders cost about $500 Would think the crank and bearings would be about another $300 or $400. I've got a WD I'd like to sell for $1500. I went through the engine in 2001. May have 15 hours on it. I'd sell it for $1500. That is about the value of a good WD.

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M Nut

09-30-2006 06:09:29




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 Re: Allis WD with hard knock. Need some advice. in reply to awcmail, 09-29-2006 19:07:03  
Should be able to rebuild this yourself. They are not to bad. I have done a couple, and my brother did his first one in an afternoon. Rebuild parts should run you no more than 5-600 dollars. I guess I might try that route, as it seems to me you paid an awful lot for the tractor already. I used to sell good running WD's with wide fronts and new paint jobs for $2000. Narrow fronts were less.



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awcmail

09-30-2006 06:41:07




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 Re: Allis WD with hard knock. Need some advice. in reply to M Nut, 09-30-2006 06:09:29  
Thanks for the encourgement. That's what I had been told by the guy I know who knows these engines pretty well. Yea I did overpay some but it seemed to be just what I wanted at the time, I needed quickly, there weren't any other allises around that I could find, this one was wide and had a front loader which I wanted and it seemed to be in great shape at the time though now it looks more like a screwed up tractor pollished up and sold.


For 600-1000 total I guess it's worth trying since what I have now is basiclly worthless and anything else I buy is a gamble where other than this one tiny tiny thing like not running this one seems to be in very good shape and would be a good tractor for me once repaired. OF course if I can get all that in an uglyer package for $ 800 like someone mentioned then I should use this for parts and it's not worth my time.

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awcmail

09-29-2006 22:20:50




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 Re: Allis WD with hard knock. Need some advice. in reply to awcmail, 09-29-2006 19:07:03  
Jesus guys I was expecting bad news but I feel like I'm getting kicked. Thanks for being honest. I guess I had thought the radiator sprung a leak (it obviously had one before but it look like it had been "fixed"), overheated it, got an oil leak, got low and burned up a bearing that already had a small knock. I did get it from a what seemed like a reputable dealership but wouldn't expect to get any retribution on the deal without legality on my side. The tractor was painted recently and had some small leaks around the seals but nothing major. It burned a little oil from the get go, maybe 1 quart in 12 hours. As for not knowing that you couldn't repack the bearings I was told that so don't blame me but...I know less than that so your point is still valid.

Now I’m kind of bummed. Oh well it is what it is.

The knocking is medium in pitch and directly proportional to the load.

I wouldn’t have full time and I mean full time help from someone experienced but I do have some part time help from someone who’s been around these things for 30 years though I’m not sure he’s ever done a rebuild on one.


Well thanks for the comments. I guess I will drop the pan and make sure it is what it looks like and then ....

Oh well I guess I can sit on that one.

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gene (missouri)

09-29-2006 21:39:40




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 Re: Allis WD with hard knock. Need some advice. in reply to awcmail, 09-29-2006 19:07:03  
Ouch. I would forget about rebuilding the engine.

If this were my tractor I would find a good running WD and purchase it. Then use your tractor as a parts tractor. In central Missouri you should be able to find a very good WD for $1000- to $1500-.

Last good running WD, with no major problems - needed a tune up, cost me $800-.



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old

09-29-2006 22:24:41




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 Re: Allis WD with hard knock. Need some advice. in reply to gene (missouri), 09-29-2006 21:39:40  
Gene, Yep BTDT and thats why I just switched engine in my WC speed patrol instead of a rebuild. Shoot I still have the old engine in my shop. The reson I switched them was it was weak and had little to no oil preasure and I ran it for 10 years that way. I'd almsot bet it would be a good engine with a little TLC. Shoot its even a WD45 engine to boot.

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noncompos

09-29-2006 20:41:22




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 Re: Allis WD with hard knock. Need some advice. in reply to awcmail, 09-29-2006 19:07:03  
Sorry about this; it's gonna be more hard knocks.
(1) Any evidence of engine work when you bought it?? Things like new gaskets (nice white edge on the head gasket? Nice clean pan gasket, etc? Clean bolt heads on otherwise dirty engine??). People with engine trouble sometimes open it up, find it's gonna be expensive, patch it , put it back together and sell it, and they're not always smart enough to use the old gaskets or dirty up the new ones.
(2) Engine bearings are not like wheel bearings; there's no such thing as packing them. Which leads me to think you're not experienced enough to try to overhaul it yourself, at least not without full-time--repeat,full-time--overseeing by someone who is.
(3)Old is right on about the pros and cons of overhaul vs another engine.
(4) Knocking under load-especially if a deep, thump type of knock-sounds like a main bearing (a rod bearing is usually a more higher pitched, sharper clattering knock, worst when you back off the gas, but engines can fool you, and often do); if you developed an oil leak you could have burned it out for lack of oil, but developing water and oil leaks at the same time doesn't pass the "smell test" (something stinks, and I don't mean hot oil). (5)Did anyone experienced check this rig out for you when you bought it? Did you buy from a reputable dealer? (if so, you may have an out, as there's a distinct possibility it had troubles when you bought it). Wherever you bought it, you might want to check your state's consumer laws about disclosure of defects when selling equipment. Good luck.

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old

09-29-2006 19:22:11




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 Re: Allis WD with hard knock. Need some advice. in reply to awcmail, 09-29-2006 19:07:03  
Drop the pan off of it after draining the oil and have a look see. Grab all the rods and see if any are loose. If you find one loose then its time for a n engine rebuild. Crank will need to be turned and then all new rings, rod and mains put in. But then you will also have an almost new engine. Cost if you do the work your self will be around $500-1000 depending on machine shop costs. Or you could also maybe find another engine to drop in it but thats a gamble at best. BTDT but I also have been playing with engines since I was 10 years old and thats a few decades ago.

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