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148 gas engine with no oil pressure

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Bill Griffin

03-23-2005 09:29:52




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Well, after a year and a half I finally got the 148 gas engine back in my old 430 forklift. I put 1 new sleeve and piston in and all new rod and main bearings. (the info I got here was really helpful for installing the sleeve btw). I cranked it the first time last sunday and it fired right up and purred like a kitten but showed no oil pressure on the guage. Thinking the guage was bad, I took the fitting out of the block where the sender goes and started it up. Nothing came out, not even a dribble. I'm guessing the oil pump must be bad but I never saw one that wouldn't pump anything at all. Any thoughts on what I may have done wrong? I guess I'll pull the axle and drop the pan and see if I can get it out without pulling the motor again. Man, I hate it when stuff like this happens. I have no way of knowing if it had any oil pressure before I started as the #3 pistion was holed from a long time leaking head gasket.

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Joe (Wa)

03-23-2005 16:48:28




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 Re: 148 gas engine with no oil pressure in reply to Bill Griffin, 03-23-2005 09:29:52  
The pump mounts on the front main bearing cap and drives off the crankshaft gear.

The pickup strainer is the floating type and may have been inadvertely jammed up above the normal oil level when the pan was mounted.

When you pulled the oil line, did you pull the elbow too and look into the oil galley? If that is clear you may want to force some oil in there and attempt to prime the pump.

There are several reasons the pump may fail to move oil, pump is self priming but will not pick up if bone dry (not wet with oil), sheared drive
gear key, locater pin may be bent preventing the pump body oil holes mating properly with same in the bearing cap, The internal pumping drive gear shaft key may be sheared. The relief valve is cylindrical and can bind in the bore. The relief valve is spring loaded, spring and retainer cap are captured with a cotter key. The spring free length is 1-15/16" set to maintain pump output at 14 - 20 psi at the panel gauge. Mount the spring retainer with the concave side out only.

Joe

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Bill Griffin

03-23-2005 18:22:59




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 Re: 148 gas engine with no oil pressure in reply to Joe (Wa), 03-23-2005 16:48:28  
Thanks for the suggestions. I heard the pickup screen fall down when I rolled the motor over on the engine stand so I don't think it was that. I did have the pump off to replace that front bearing and turned the gear by hand. It made a sucking noise so I figured it was probably OK. Having done that I'm sure it emptied what oil was left in it leaving just air so if it doesn't self prime that could be it. I did pump about 1/2 pint of oil into the port where the sender screws in with a squirt bottle but maybe that wasn't enough. I was very careful about lining up holes when I put the bearings in so I hope it isn't that. I would think that oil would still be in the gallery where the sender goes even if it were not getting past the bearings at the crank. I'll try putting more oil in through the sender hole before I pull the pan. I'd be one happy camper if that works.

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Bill Griffin

03-23-2005 19:16:12




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 Re: 148 gas engine with no oil pressure in reply to Bill Griffin, 03-23-2005 18:22:59  
Well, I went out and pumped 1/2 a quart through the sender hole and cranked it over and nothing. So, I overfilled the oil pan by 3 quarts and it did put out a couple of drops while cranking. I'm thinking maybe the seal for the pickup tube where it goes into the pump. Unfortunately, the mast is too tall to fit in my shop so I have to work on it outside and it has been misting rain a lot lately. When I get a sunny day, I'll pull the pan.

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Joe (Wa)

03-23-2005 20:07:47




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 Re: 148 gas engine with no oil pressure in reply to Bill Griffin, 03-23-2005 19:16:12  
Bill, the pick-up pipe threaded into the pump body is NPT. The pivot union for the pick up pipe & floating strainer pipe does not have a seal, only a raised area the that rides in a socket and is secured with a cotter pin.

I would think that the additional 3 quarts would raise the sump level to cover the pivot union but not sure. If the oil strainer was adrift and you drained the oil with tractor slightly head down, the strainer should end laying over the oil drain hole.

The oil gallery on the left side of the block was rifle drilled both from the front and the rear of the block and pipe plugs inserted. If you don't have oil in the bell housing now, the rear pipe plug is ok. The front plug is under the timing cover. If the front plug was missing you would never know it except there would be no oil pressure, but even so there should be some indication of oil being pumped through the gallery and back to the sump.

I have a 148 stripped down to bare block and will be building it up in the next couple of weeks. Please keep us posted on what you find.

Joe

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Bill Griffin

03-24-2005 09:04:10




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 Re: 148 gas engine with no oil pressure in reply to Joe (Wa), 03-23-2005 20:07:47  
That's how I remember the pickup tube going back together and I questioned then whether or not it should have an o ring or something there. One other thing I did last night was to blow air back through the sender hole. I could hear it coming out inside the engine down through the push rod tubes. If I don't see anything obvious when I pull the pan, I try that again and see if I can find a missing plug or something. When I took the oil pump off to replace the main bearing, I did it all at once and put everything right back together, so I don't think I would have forgotten anything there. It's probably something that was preexisting but I'm always quick to blame myself anyways.

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NEsota

03-23-2005 11:58:29




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 Re: 148 gas engine with no oil pressure in reply to Bill Griffin, 03-23-2005 09:29:52  
After changing engines in a Ford Tempo once, I had the same symtoms. The problem was the drive shaft between the gear driven distributor and the oil pump was missing.



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Mike Johnston

03-23-2005 10:57:19




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 Re: 148 gas engine with no oil pressure in reply to Bill Griffin, 03-23-2005 09:29:52  
Had the same problem with an 126 engine that had sat idle for a number of years. Got it running and had no oil pressure. Not a drop. The pressure relief/bypass ended up being stuck open. I have no idea how that could happen, but all it took (after dropping the axle & pan and removing) was freeing it up to get the pressure back.

Mike Johnston



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Jerry W

03-23-2005 10:57:06




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 Re: 148 gas engine with no oil pressure in reply to Bill Griffin, 03-23-2005 09:29:52  
Bill

Would it be possible to pull the distributor and drive the pump with a drill to prime. I am assuming that the pump is driven off the bottom of the distributor. If it is drive off the front cam gears maybe something came undone like a gear falling off.

Jerry



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Jerry W

03-23-2005 10:53:58




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 Re: 148 gas engine with no oil pressure in reply to Bill Griffin, 03-23-2005 09:29:52  
Bill

I do not know how a 148 oils but did the main bearings and cam bearings get installed correctly as per oil hole alignment?

No oil at all suggests to me that maybe something sheared in the pump - keyway or pin.

Sump fell off or forgotten or possibly bypass open.

Just some thoughts. Jerry



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