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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

450 loader hydraulics overheating

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Alan-Ky

11-14-2005 03:50:11




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i raised the bucket 4 foot off the ground and left it there for three hours, it did not drift down at all. i noticed when i had the engine runnning above an idle the engine was laboring, when i moved the hydraulic controls to raise or dump the bucket the engine was not laboring anymore, within half an hour the hydraulic tank was so hot you couldn't hardly touch it, this is a plain jd 450 loader no backhoe or ripper, where do i go from here i don't want to run it with the oil getting so hot, has new jd hygard oil in it and filters have been cleaned

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Bob/Ont

11-14-2005 07:31:08




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 Re: 450 loader hydraulics overheating in reply to Alan-Ky, 11-14-2005 03:50:11  
Alan, it sounds to me like you have a removable attachment for your machine like a back hoe that runs off of the hyd system too. When it's not in use the lines to it must be connected together. If they are connected the quick couplers are likely worn out and not opening to allow the open center flow back to the filter. When you add another valve you use Power Beyond and plug the port inside the valve to force the pump flow out to the remote valve, the only way the oil gets back is through the lines to that remote valve. They must be connected and flow free all the time.
Later Bob

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jdemaris

11-14-2005 05:07:28




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 Re: 450 loader hydraulics overheating in reply to Alan-Ky, 11-14-2005 03:50:11  
The hydraulic oil is supposed to be free-flowing wth no restrictions when no functions are being used. That is why the systems is referred to as an "open center" system - the hydraulic control valve is the "center" and meant to be fully open when not being used. Sounds like your's is not fully open. This can happen when a return spring gets weak or broken on a valve-spool. You also might have some debris stuck in it somewhere.

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Alan -Ky

11-14-2005 13:35:59




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 Re: 450 loader hydraulics overheating in reply to jdemaris, 11-14-2005 05:07:28  
can i take the caps off on the end of the spools to check the springs and replace if needed or do i need to take the whole valve assembly out and disassemble it to check these springs and replace?



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jdemaris

11-14-2005 17:35:55




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 Re: 450 loader hydraulics overheating in reply to Alan -Ky, 11-14-2005 13:35:59  
As I recall, you said previously that this is a straight 450 and there are no options or attachments such as extra valves, backhoe,ripper, etc. - correct? If that is the case, the flow must be getting restricted somewhere. The centering springs for the spool valves accessible by taking the end-caps off. If a spring is not working right though, you ought to be able to feel it in the control valve handle. Does it feel like it is returning to neutral properly? Also, is your hyrdrauic oil return filter restriction-indicator jumping up and down or is it not moving?

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Bob/Ont

11-14-2005 17:56:12




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 Re: 450 loader hydraulics overheating in reply to jdemaris, 11-14-2005 17:35:55  
JD, I wonder if Alan just got the tractor and someone removed some stuff and didn't get it back to standard. Do they install a plug inside the valve to get powerbeyond? If so tell him how to check it has been removed.
Later Bob



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Alan-Ky

11-15-2005 03:41:49




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 Re: 450 loader hydraulics overheating in reply to Bob/Ont, 11-14-2005 17:56:12  
I have had the loader for 4 years and it just started this saturday a week ago, we were running it in the morning stopped for lunch and after that the reservoir tank started getting really hot.



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Bob/Ont

11-15-2005 06:26:03




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 Re: 450 loader hydraulics overheating in reply to Alan-Ky, 11-15-2005 03:41:49  
Well Alan that clears up a lot of things. We now know that it isn't something put together wrong, it's something that wore out or came apart and blocked the center flow as JD said. A similar problem was posted here a couple of years back. That machine had a backhoe attachment and one of the remote hyd line couplers had come apart while operating and not been noticed.
Later Bob



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jdemaris

11-15-2005 05:08:22




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 Re: 450 loader hydraulics overheating in reply to Alan-Ky, 11-15-2005 03:41:49  
You didn't reply about the your filter restriction indicator - is it jumping up and down or is it sitting still? There are not many things that can cause this sort of problem in your machine. Besides what has been aforementioned, does your control valve have any lift-checks? My memory is a little foggy as to what machines used them, some Deere's loaders do, and some do not. They are part of the control valve and accessible from a removable cap - but NOT the end cap. There are little one-way valves - sometimes consisting of a spring and a nylon, plastic, or steel valve or ball. We had some problems with the plastic ones getting sucked in to the main system and causing a restriction. There function is, when working correctly, is to prevent a heavily loaded bucket from coming down a bit when you first hit the lever to raise it. Considering the vintage of your crawler - I don't think it has them -but it would only take a few minutes to look. I've got a couple of complete hydraulic control valves from older 450 loaders out in my shop. I'll take a look later.

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Alan-Ky

11-16-2005 04:13:14




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 Re: 450 loader hydraulics overheating in reply to jdemaris, 11-15-2005 05:08:22  
the filter restriction indicator is sitting still, ot raising or jumping, i will do some more checks this saturday, Thanks all for the information. I will post back soon as i find something else out!



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Bob/Ont

11-14-2005 13:56:43




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 Re: 450 loader hydraulics overheating in reply to Alan -Ky, 11-14-2005 13:35:59  
You could check the springs that way Alan. Do you have any attachments hooked up to the hyd system that you aren't useing? It sounds to me like the pump flow is blocked through the center of the valve since you say it unloads the engine when you use a circuit. Can lift and bucket circuits both function? How long have you had this machine?
Later Bob



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