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wierd science/ 10-20 pistons and sleeves

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russ hamm

02-21-2007 05:37:16




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we pulled the pistons out of a 10-20 about a month ago and had to change one sleeve. it had bent a rod years ago and scored the number one piston also. it was stuck, but the pistons all came out with a sledge and block of wood. we honed out the cylinders, cleaned the pistons and went to putting it back together. it was cold in the shop and THE PISTONS WOULD NOT GO BACK IN! we assumed that the block was too cold. last night the temperature was a lot better and a space heater had warmed up the block. NONE OF THE PISTONS WOULD STILL GO IN! THESE CAME OUT OF THOSE SLEEVES A MONTH AGO! looks like it siezed up running years ago becauseof piston clearance. seems the sleeves shrunk while we had the pistons out. HUH? antbody ever experience this?

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James Williams

02-21-2007 18:46:20




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 Re: wierd science/ 10-20 pistons and sleeves in reply to russ hamm, 02-21-2007 05:37:16  
Russ,I had the same problem with a super C,I guess the sleeves were out of round so I went to a machine shop and hoaned them alot,untill they fit,but the motor smoked terrible,Also my F30, the pistons would slide in but when I installed the rings the piston was to tight,I found some dirt in the ring groves



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russ hamm

02-21-2007 18:53:23




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 Re: wierd science/ 10-20 pistons and sleeves in reply to James Williams, 02-21-2007 18:46:20  
thanks jim. but we tried the pistons without rings also. no go. honing comin up.



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K.B.-826

02-21-2007 17:07:25




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 Re: wierd science/ 10-20 pistons and sleeves in reply to russ hamm, 02-21-2007 05:37:16  
Let me start out by saying that in no way am I a 10-20 expert. Are your sleeves wet or dry? How hard were they to install? My thought is that your bores are egg-shaped, and that the sleeves conformed to them. Now the sleeves are oval, the pistons are round, and you"re basically trying to put a round peg in a square hole. Measure the sleeves for roundness. If out of round, pop one back out and measure the bore for being out of round.

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russ hamm

02-21-2007 17:50:47




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 well,kb826 in reply to K.B.-826, 02-21-2007 17:07:25  
they are wet sleeves. and actually you are on point. we could put them in upside down half way and shine a light below. looking from the top the sleeves are either egg shaped or the pistons are. BUT the kicker is that we only pulled one sleeve and the next one went in fine. and the pistons came out better than some iv'e done. my guess is someone had this apart, pressed the pins in and egged the pistons, then it siezed and bent a rod, then when we took it apart we thought the other three were rust stuck but they might have been actually that tight to begin with.

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El Toro

02-22-2007 04:33:03




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 Re: well,kb826 in reply to russ hamm, 02-21-2007 17:50:47  
I see there's a new sleeve kit available for the 15-30, but it has the 4.5" bore. Hal



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K-Mo

02-21-2007 11:08:57




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 Re: wierd science/ 10-20 pistons and sleeves in reply to russ hamm, 02-21-2007 05:37:16  
Don't have an answer and don't understand weird science but I had the same thing with a pair of loader cylinders. Once I forced the ram piston out of the cylinder, there was no way it was going back in. I took them to a hydraulic shop and they didn't understand it either. I ended up machining the the pistons down to get them back together. Worked fine ever since.
K-Mo



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Janicholson

02-21-2007 08:35:06




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 Re: wierd science/ 10-20 pistons and sleeves in reply to russ hamm, 02-21-2007 05:37:16  
Using a Sunnen straight hone with 150 roughing stones will take it out 5 thou in 10 minutes. Use i/2 engine oil, and 1/2 #2 diesel for hoine lube. Do the pistons appear undammaged by the sledge blows? JimN



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russ hamm

02-21-2007 10:22:12




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 Re: wierd science/ 10-20 pistons and sleeves in reply to Janicholson, 02-21-2007 08:35:06  
thanks jan. will check it out, honing in our future. :^)



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russ hamm

02-21-2007 08:20:06




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 whats really wierd about it in reply to russ hamm, 02-21-2007 05:37:16  
is that the sleeves in this tractor have an obvious ring wear at the top so it ran with these sleeves and pistons quite a while before it bent that rod and then sat for years. i dunno. number one siezed and number two bent the rod. number one piston was scored pretty good but came out okay. ????? ?????



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Janicholson

02-21-2007 07:04:51




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 Re: wierd science/ 10-20 pistons and sleeves in reply to russ hamm, 02-21-2007 05:37:16  
Even though it appears they have been acounted for, they may be very different pistons or sleeves. Provenance (the detailed control of the location of "things") is very hard to do. and not worth it unless a crime has been committed. Sleeves, pistons do not shrink/grow that much, and if, at least in the same direction. Good luck, JimN



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russ hamm

02-21-2007 07:36:06




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 Re: wierd science/ 10-20 pistons and sleeves in reply to Janicholson, 02-21-2007 07:04:51  
exactly on the shrink and grow thing. but these pistons are marked well an very much accounted for. this would be the 5th. 10-20 we worked on.



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El Toro

02-21-2007 05:53:43




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 Re: wierd science/ 10-20 pistons and sleeves in reply to russ hamm, 02-21-2007 05:37:16  
I would measure or have the pistons and sleeves measured. Someone may have used the wrong sleeve. Hal
PS: They may need to be honed for clearance.



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russ hamm

02-21-2007 06:57:33




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 Re: wierd science/ 10-20 pistons and sleeves in reply to El Toro, 02-21-2007 05:53:43  
that's the wierd part. we put a used sleeve in for the one we replaced and that piston wont go in either. honed each cylinder about twenty minutes and it gets some better. looks like the sleeves mike out of round in the block. ????? ???



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El Toro

02-21-2007 07:30:04




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 Re: wierd science/ 10-20 pistons and sleeves in reply to russ hamm, 02-21-2007 06:57:33  
Mike those sleeves in the block and pistons.
Those pistons should be around 4.5". Hal



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russ hamm

02-21-2007 07:33:22




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 Re: wierd science/ 10-20 pistons and sleeves in reply to El Toro, 02-21-2007 07:30:04  
4.25 hal. yeah, it seems more and more like a long hone job.



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El Toro

02-21-2007 07:49:12




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 Re: wierd science/ 10-20 pistons and sleeves in reply to russ hamm, 02-21-2007 07:33:22  
You are right, I should've looked at my book. Hal



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