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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Would this work ?

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Richard E.

02-24-2007 12:31:15




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I have found a 504-utility/loader with a bad engine. I do have a Farmall "M" tractor that"s worn out with a good engine. Could I put this engine in the 504 ?




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City-Boy McCoy

02-26-2007 17:05:48




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 Re: Would this work ? in reply to Richard E., 02-24-2007 12:31:15  
Heck, I'd just rebuild the M tractor. (But, that's just what I'd do.) Stewart Wellington Montegard Drew IV.



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georgeky

02-25-2007 07:14:03




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 Re: Would this work ? in reply to Richard E., 02-24-2007 12:31:15  
I didn't know you could wear out a M .



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Richard E.

02-24-2007 16:52:57




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 Re: Would this work ? in reply to Richard E., 02-24-2007 12:31:15  
Thanks for getting back so quickly. There"s no sence in cobbing up a nice tractor to save a buck, so I better looking into fixin" the engine that"s there. I would like to get all the horsepower I can, high alitude kit ?



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Hugh MacKay

02-25-2007 03:06:47




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 Re: Would this work ? in reply to Richard E., 02-24-2007 16:52:57  
Richard: I see you've accepted the advice of Wardner, Jim and others. I was about to suggest, you'd probably find the proper M parts to put around the M engine for less money than what you were proposing.

If you find your C-153 engine is just not worth the rebuild effort, I look for a 300 or 350 Utility engine, it would be a direct bolt up, plus you'd have a sleeved engine with some torque.

I may be a bit prejudiced, however I call that C-153 the poorest engine IH ever built. In fact of the 16 working IH tractors I've owned the 504 with C-153 was the only poor one. The engine was the only poor part, and I personally wouldn't spend $0.05 on a C-153. My 504 was gone down the road at 1,500 hours.

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Dr.EVIL

02-26-2007 11:51:11




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 Re: Would this work ? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-25-2007 03:06:47  
I thought the 504's engine, the C-153 was an over-grown C/Super C engine? Wet liners & all. Not the latest version of the C-152/C-164/C-169/C-175 engine in the H, SH, 300/350. Far as putting an M engine in a 504 I really don't think it would fit with any "Stock" parts. The crankcase is too wide for the frame rails.



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Hugh MacKay

02-26-2007 13:02:55




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 Re: Would this work ? in reply to Dr.EVIL, 02-26-2007 11:51:11  
Dr.Evil: the C-153 is actually more closely related to the C-123 and C-135 than it is the C-152, C-164, C-169 or C-175, however it just doesn't have sleeves.

The 504 I had, came with a farm I bought in 1972. He had traded a 300 on new 504 gas in 1967. When I bought the farm the 504 was at the IH dealers having the engine rebuilt at 1,500 hours. He had never been satisfied with the performance of the 504, had been on the dealer about it since new, telling the dealer even though the 504 was rated 10 hp more than his 300. He told me it wouldn't hold a candle to the 300 on hard lugging. He badgered the dealer so bad, finally they agreed to open it up to see what was wrong. They bored it and installed larger pistons.

During the time 504 was away I bought his farm, complete with equipment. When they delivered the 504 the vendor wanted to run it for a day on work. We hitched him up to my 9' haybine, and after 3 days, he suggested I not keep the 504 very long. He knew that I, having doubled my land base was planning to trade my own 300, about 15,000 hours at the time, off on a new larger tractor. He had driven my 300 and suggested I keep it and trade the 504. One day I took both the 504 and my 300 to the field along with a 3x16 No.60 plow. He was right, even after the engine rebuild the 504 wouldn't hold a candle to my old 300, then about 3,000 hours into it's 4th set of pistons and sleeves. The 504 went down the road.

The IH dealer told me some years later, he sold that 504 about 4 times and no one kept it longer than 2 years until they were back wanting to trade for some real horse power. He said it was the only 504 gasser he ever sold, and that the diesels he had sold went out and he never saw them again.

I quite agree with you the M engine is not the answer. He'd be better off finding an M to put around his M engine. I always tell folks with 504 and a C-153 engine, go for a C-169 or C-175.

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Richard E.

02-25-2007 08:29:54




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 Re: Hugh? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-25-2007 03:06:47  
The 504"s 153cu. isn"t sleeved ? So the 350"s engine would be the best bet for the most hp . (A sleeved engine would be the best bet for a re-build). Thanks for the input.....



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Janicholson

02-24-2007 17:21:12




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 Re: Would this work ? in reply to Richard E., 02-24-2007 16:52:57  
Boring the block to a larger displacement, and using oversize pistons would be OK. It may not have a lot of "meat" in the walls. Others may chime in with limits. There would be no problem going .030 over, which is not much of a displacement increase. Fire crater pistons, and a .050 shave of the head would bring compression up pretty well. JimN



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Janicholson

02-24-2007 15:12:13




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 Re: Would this work ? in reply to Richard E., 02-24-2007 12:31:15  
I side with wardner, If you sold the operational M engine, you would have a base to begin the rebuild on the stock engine (unless it is very wasted) JimN



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Farmall Freak

02-24-2007 13:53:30




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 Re: Would this work ? in reply to Richard E., 02-24-2007 12:31:15  
With some time and effort it would work. You might have to do some modifying.



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Wardner

02-24-2007 13:53:20




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 Re: Would this work ? in reply to Richard E., 02-24-2007 12:31:15  
Well, first of all, I don't believe the M engine or any of its decendants ever had a bolster attached to its front as does your utility.

Secondly, the M sized tractors are one size bigger than the 504 which is derived from the H and the smaller C.

However, if you want to waste alot of time and money, you could cobble something together. It might work for awhile but I think eventually you will just leave it in the field when it breaks for the last time. The number of times you tow it back to the barn depends on your individual tolerance for mental anguish.

Your easiest solution is too fix the 153" engine. You will be doing yourself a favor because the tractor will have resale value. With the M engine, it will only have salvage value.

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Paul in wis.

02-24-2007 12:50:49




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 Re: Would this work ? in reply to Richard E., 02-24-2007 12:31:15  
I think the engine in the 504 is smaller, so the M engine wouldn't bolt right in.



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