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Farmall A vs Super A Head Gasket

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CSR

02-26-2007 10:20:58

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I've heard that using a Super A gasket on an A would cause the A to overheat because the Super A gasket has smaller cooling holes because it runs a water pump which forces the water thru. The non-super engine has the thermosyphon system so I'm told needs the larger holes for circulation.
The TISCO kit I'm considering thru this site will use the same head gasket per the TISCO help line. Does anyone have any experience either way ?
Thanks.

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Tom Olson

02-26-2007 20:16:56

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Re: Farmall A vs Super A Head Gasket in reply to CSR, 02-26-2007 10:20:58

There are 2 different head gaskets made for the 113 engines as I learned a couple of years ago from my closest long time-old time IH dealer. He had both in stock & showed me the difference. If you don"t have a water pump, just make sure you get the gasket with the larger coolant holes to avoid having to modify it to fit. It"s always better to use the correct part. I tried to find the receipt so I could give the part number but looks like it"s long gone.
Tom

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JayWalt

02-26-2007 19:42:59

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Re: Farmall A vs Super A Head Gasket in reply to CSR, 02-26-2007 10:20:58

one has to wonder why they would decrease the cooling hole size in the gasket when they went to a water pump design, why not just leave it alone? Some things you can never figure out the logic behind it, if there is any.

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Janicholson

02-26-2007 20:39:25

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Re: Farmall A vs Super A Head Gasket in reply to JayWalt, 02-26-2007 19:42:59

The water pump provides a flow change in the block that is not natural. The result was a few spots that were found to be hotter than others. This results in uneven thermal expansion, and possible contribution to cracking. Though it seams wierd, the uniform cooling with a restricted hole is important (others may disagree) JimN

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Hugh MacKay

02-27-2007 02:34:57

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Re: Farmall A vs Super A Head Gasket in reply to Janicholson, 02-26-2007 20:39:25

Jim: I quite agree with you, don't know as I've heard of actual cracking. I've heard numerous examples of 1 or 2 cylinders failing prematurely, and the blame got put on wrong head gasket for the application. If my recall is correct, there has been more problem with the gasket intended for water pump application, going in a thermosyphon tractor, although I've heard both.

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gene bender

02-26-2007 12:31:12

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Re: Farmall A vs Super A Head Gasket in reply to CSR, 02-26-2007 10:20:58

I have rebuilt several of the 113 engines and dont see any difference in the head gaskets as i get mine from CAR QUEST man at the counter always says A,B,BN,AV,SA on and on as they all have the same part# now I-H mite list more but i wouldnt worry as the gasket seems to have a larger port for the water than the head opening.

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City-Boy McCoy

02-26-2007 11:48:05

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Re: Farmall A vs Super A Head Gasket in reply to CSR, 02-26-2007 10:20:58

Only Super A-1's (1954) came with water pumps. Super A's 1947 - 1953 are thermo-syphon just like a regular A, unless someone later added a pump. mike

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Hugh MacKay

02-26-2007 12:16:59

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Re: Farmall A vs Super A Head Gasket in reply to City-Boy McCoy, 02-26-2007 11:48:05

Mike: Actually most of the 54s were thermosyphon as well. Super A1 started at serial number 356001 and only 1,957 were built. Since 1954 started at serial number 353348, that leaves 2,653 that were built thermosyphon before Super A1.

Since many of the earlier SA and A have been changed to water pump, I think the criteria in ordering the engine rebuilt kit along with gaskets, should be whether the A or SA have a water pump or not. The gasket set has nothing to do with model designation anymore but rather water pump or non water pump. Having said that and knowing what we know, I expect one looks at before or after serial number 356001. Then one has to consider size of hole in gasket for pistons since C-113 is 3" bore and C-123 is 3-1/8" bore. Then you also have folks installing 3-1/4" sleeves. I would say one has to be quite specific in ordering the gaskets. Personally I really wouldn't want to drill or punch any of them.

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Super A

02-27-2007 07:18:21

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Re: Farmall A vs Super A Head Gasket in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-26-2007 12:16:59

Wonder how many actually knew to change the head gasket on the earlier tractors when they added a water pump? My '48 Super A had one installed when it was overhauled in 2001. I took it off and put the original elbow back on last summer. IIRC the mech. told me he just added the pump, never mentioned changing the gasket. He added it after he rebuilt the engine and test-run it a few times--he was concerned about the "gurgling" common to thermosyphon systems when you shut it off. Now I am wondering if I should check it a little closer!

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City-Boy McCoy

02-26-2007 16:45:31

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Re: Farmall A vs Super A Head Gasket in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-26-2007 12:16:59

Hugh: I totally agree with you. mike

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scotty

02-26-2007 11:47:15

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Re: Farmall A vs Super A Head Gasket in reply to CSR, 02-26-2007 10:20:58

Afternoon CSR, I have a 49 Super A and dont have any water pump. They didnt have waterpumps on the offsets until later. Im not sure what year but Im sure someone will jump in with that info.

As far as opening up the cooling holes, a metal punch would work better than drilling. IMO.

scotty

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Randy in NE

02-26-2007 10:31:51

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Re: Farmall A vs Super A Head Gasket in reply to CSR, 02-26-2007 10:20:58

I ran into the same problem a couple of years ago when I replaced the head gasket on one of C's. I used a drill bit and enlarged the holes in the gasket. A person just needs to take their time and have a sharp drill bit. I backed the gasket against a board and this helped some. Then I cleaned up the rough edges of the holes with a sharp utility knife. Not the prettiest but it is holding so far. I'm sure that if a person looked hard enough that you could probably find the "C" gasket.

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