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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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suicide rims

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sven

03-12-2007 12:51:01




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Just bought a heavy duty front axle to put on my I-6. This is the same axle that could be ordered for any standard model. It has the solid cast hubs and 20in. split rims. When i took the rims to get new tires, they refused to touch them. they said that not only the rims a pain to deal with but they often come apert after the new tire is installed. In fact they all called them sucide rims. Is any one familar with these rims?I can't imagine that i would ever find newer rims that would fit the hub. Is it worth for me to put the tires on myself. Thanks

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moseed

03-13-2007 06:46:36




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 Re: suicide rims in reply to sven, 03-12-2007 12:51:01  
Any ag tire center or commercial truck tire facility will work on the side ring rims of old that many call splits. Even the guys that work on them call them splits now. My son has a "48" chevy pick-up with side ring wheels and the local commercial tire place here have no problem with them. My Dad calls the side ring and split rims "widow makers". That's enough to make me go to the professionals that have cages for the things. Have to admit I stepped gingerly around his pick-up for a week or two after getting new tires!!

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sven

03-12-2007 22:07:36




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 Re: suicide rims in reply to sven, 03-12-2007 12:51:01  
are these rims known to blow apart after they are put back on the tractor. if i do find some one to put them on, could they still cause trouble in the future? thanks for the input



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the Unforgiven

03-13-2007 06:52:08




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 Re: suicide rims in reply to sven, 03-12-2007 22:07:36  
It has happened before. If your rims and rings are not pitted, bent, cracked or otherwise damaged, and it is not overloaded, it should not be a problem. There is still about a zillion of them on old pickups, trucks, graders, tractors and wagons that are in use. They don't kill people everyday, but yes, they can be VERY dangerous.



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Rob Baird

03-12-2007 20:16:31




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 Re: suicide rims in reply to sven, 03-12-2007 12:51:01  
HI I changed a lot of them with a log chain lopped arond all the holes and then hooked tight. Never had one come apart. The true suicide rims split in the middle not with the ring. The ones that split in the middle no one works on anymore. If you have a 3-4 inch wide band in center of rim it splits from there. The rims with the ring should still be ok just have to be careful and make sure ring seats good and no rust under it

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Doug in IL

03-12-2007 21:14:02




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 Re: suicide rims in reply to Rob Baird, 03-12-2007 20:16:31  
Nice to see someone who knows what a split rim actually is. I don't think there is a shop around that won't do side ring rims though. Spilt rims most will not do. I'm sure the original posters wheels are side ring rims. A spilt rim and a side ring rim are NOT the same thing. I have changed many side ring wheels. The key is clean surfaces on both the rim and ring, no cracks on either, and an unsprung ring. Inflate them in a cage or with chains. The side ring rims have carried freight for probably billions of miles. Yes, people have been hurt with them. But people have been struck by lighting too!

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Wardner

03-12-2007 19:45:18




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 Re: suicide rims in reply to sven, 03-12-2007 12:51:01  
I must have led a charmed life as a 16 yo kid. I fixed countless flats on my '47 KB-5 that was equipped with split rims. Nobody ever showed me how to do it but I am here to say I didn't make any mistakes. If the rim and ring are clean, you can actually put them together without irons. A couple of screwdrivers will get them apart. In later years, I was running 9.00x20 on the original 7.50x20 rims.

If something doesn't look right, don't put air in them. Take them apart and CLEAN them good.

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Bill in NC

03-12-2007 19:28:01




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 Re: suicide rims in reply to sven, 03-12-2007 12:51:01  
Here's site with pictures of split rims and a safety cage:



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Haas

03-12-2007 19:17:58




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 Re: suicide rims in reply to sven, 03-12-2007 12:51:01  
I have an I-6 that has the split rims on the rear. The guy I got it from had put new tires on it. He had to look awhile, but finally found one of the local farm Co-Ops tire shop would do it. The one nearest him would not do it. You'll have to keep looking until you find a shop that will do it. As others said, don't try to change those yourself. It must be done by someone that knows what they are doing. I think you will have to keep the rims, as deep center rims for the size tires that are on there now will not fit the hub. You would have to go to a larger size tire and possibly modify the rim or hub to fit the new rims.

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City-Boy McCoy

03-12-2007 18:24:34




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 Re: suicide rims in reply to sven, 03-12-2007 12:51:01  
Just find a tire dealer with a safety cage for mounting tires on split rims. They were very common just a few years ago. Someone should still have the cage and the knowledge.... they can, indeed, be dangerous. mike



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JayWalt

03-12-2007 18:09:21




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 Re: suicide rims in reply to sven, 03-12-2007 12:51:01  
got me curious as to what these are? never heard of them, but then again, I am no farmer.
I bought some tires for a wagon that the rim was bolted together and consisted of 2 identical halves. is this what they are or what?



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Hugh MacKay

03-12-2007 19:43:49




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 Re: suicide rims in reply to JayWalt, 03-12-2007 18:09:21  
Jay: The rims sven is talking about are quite different from yours. They have one flange (just the portion beside tire) that is a split ring that hooks into a groove on flat if rim. There are several different systems.

They are rather dangerous right after tire change to rim. If the tire changer doesn't get that ring seated properly they can blow off during inflation. These were very common prior to 1960. As they aged cracks became a problem and some rings were blowing off months after inflation. Very dangerous if someone were walking by as it blew. Make note of my earlier post where the ring cut through 25 feet of heavy hay, bear in mind this ring had a 1/4" blunt edge. These will amputate human limbs.

Most jurisdictions have banned the use of these rims. I think most of these guys would find their liability insurance void if someone was injured by one of these rims. I know the last set I had was one a 63 3/4 ton truck. I know even back about 1970 my insurance had a clause exempting them from liability if I used these rims.

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SDE

03-12-2007 16:40:10




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 Re: suicide rims in reply to sven, 03-12-2007 12:51:01  
That style of rim worked very well for many years for alot of different vehicles and people. Like many other things in this world, they can be very dangerous as well. DO NOT try to change them by yourself if you have any doubts about your ability to get the job done. A co-worker has a friend who spent six months in the hospital recovering from a head injury caused by a split rim that came apart when he was mounting it on to a vehicle. I changed one on a J.D. manure spreader without any trouble, but I always kept safety as my number one concern and did not take any chances.

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old

03-12-2007 14:43:22




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 Re: suicide rims in reply to sven, 03-12-2007 12:51:01  
Check around some at tire shops some one should be able to mount your tires. If you don't know how to work on them DON'T because if you don't know how and you make a mistake it could be your last one. I work on them all the time but I also have been doing so for 20 plus years and I know how to do it safely

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sflem849

03-12-2007 13:50:04




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 Re: suicide rims in reply to sven, 03-12-2007 12:51:01  
Not to disrespect the others, but I think people get WAY too worked up about split rims. They are not heat seeking deheaders like some make them out to be.
The biggest problems come when they go really flat and then get reaired or when they just get changed.
I personally take mine to a GOOD tire shop. They will change them...THEY HAVE TO...they are still on almost every (older) grain truck and dump truck. The fifty bucks (thats about what I pay) is worth your life if you dont know how to handle them. One tip if you are too cheap. I heard that you could take the bucket of the loader and make a poor mans cage w it. Just put the tire under it w just enough room to get at the valve stem and air away. MAKE SURE THE RING SEATING AREA IS RUST FREE.

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L Mack

03-12-2007 13:45:17




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 Re: suicide rims in reply to sven, 03-12-2007 12:51:01  
I had "Split Rims" on a 62 Ford Truck we used as a dump truck about 20 years ago. In that era there were lots of tire people who knew how to work with them. They actually had a cage to place the tire in to inflate the first time. We had the truck from about 1966 to 1986 and never had a problem with the rims. My dad had a 56 Ford with the split rims and a 49 Ford with split rims and never had a problem. Properly installed they work fine if not bent or dammaged. Improperly installed by someone who was not familiar or experienced with them could be deadly.

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Hugh MacKay

03-12-2007 13:21:49




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 Re: suicide rims in reply to sven, 03-12-2007 12:51:01  
sven: BE CAREFUL, these rims are not to be fooled with. They have killed people, coming apart during inflation, and have been known to come apart at other times. I had one blow off on a wagon loaded with gravel. It mowed a swath the shape of it through 25' of heavy alfalfa-timothy hay. Had anyone been in front of it, they would either be dead or crippled for life.

There is a gas station back in my home town, the old guy that ran it changed many a tire on these type rims. He once was inflating a tire with ring down a he lieing across tire and other side of rim. The folks who saw this, said when the ring blew off on the down side, it took man, rim and tire to within 2' of a 12' ceiling. He had respect for these and over the years never got hurt. There still are prints where those rings hit the ceiling, many of them cutting almost through it.

There is a reason why folks in shops will not change them. Insurance and work place safety will not tolerate these rims. If I were you, I'd find other rims giving same height of tire and fabricate and weld in centers.

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the Unforgiven

03-12-2007 13:00:41




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 Re: suicide rims in reply to sven, 03-12-2007 12:51:01  
Keep looking, there should be someone around that knows how to handle them. Most places don't like them and I don't blame 'em. If they are not damaged it should not be a big deal, they can put chains around them and put them in a cage and inflate them from a safer position. I remember one rocketing off of the feedwagon one time, glad I was not beside it..



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riowens1

03-12-2007 19:28:57




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 Re: suicide rims in reply to the Unforgiven, 03-12-2007 13:00:41  
Split rims can be dangerous, especially if you don"t know how to work on them, just make sure the tire is fully deflated when you break them down, and that the safety ring, or split ring is firmly seated in the groove when you put them back together, alos a good technique if you don"t have a safety cage is to wrap a chain around the tire in a couple of places, and lay the tire on the ground with the safety ring pointed down, don"t ever stand over the tire as you inflate it, if yopur air chuck will clip on by itself just clip it on and walk away till the tire is inflated.

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