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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Decal confusion

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Roger Mills

03-16-2007 06:55:09




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Harold H posted a reply to a question on an I9 and said that the 40's era row crop had Farmall decals, the standard had McCormick-Deering decals and the industrial had International decals. By that am I correct that an FAA or FAV has Farmall and FAB or FABN have McCormick-Deering, (and both say Cultivision) where the IAA and IAV or ? have International (without Cultivision)?? Or am I backwards with A and B? Also there was a post that said that some Farmall emblems had black paint but not all. Does anyone know which goes on what and when??

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CNKS

03-16-2007 18:19:21




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 Re: Decal confusion in reply to Roger Mills, 03-16-2007 06:55:09  
All letter series row crop tractors except the Industrial A were Farmalls, the industrial A was an International. All the Farmalls had McCormick Deering in small letters above the Farmall until mid-July 1949, when the Deering was dropped, according to Guy Fay. I assume the Standard McCormick Deering tractors also dropped the Deering at that time. My Dad's late 1947 H said McCormick Deering. Many people put the McCormick decal on earlier Farmalls, though.

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Harold H

03-16-2007 07:39:31




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 Re: Decal confusion in reply to Roger Mills, 03-16-2007 06:55:09  
On the A and AV and B and BN the decals were McCormick Deering in small writing over Farmall in big writing. Changed to McCormick in little writing over Farmall in big writing in 1947. As stated Farmall was the predomonite name on the row crop tractors. The I-A was International. There was no International AV (high clear). Cultivision was a advertising name used for the offset seating and was on some A & B series decals and not on some, no specific dates.

Starting with the letter series through the 06 series, all Farmalls had either McCormick Deering or McCormick in small letters over the big letters Farmall on the side of the hood. With the 66 series the Farmall name started being downgraded and International was in big letters on the side of the hood and Farmall was in small letters over the model number. The Farmall name disappeared in the 80's. Standard type/wheel type tractors were decaled McCormick or McCormick Deering untill the number series was introduced in 1955. After that all standard/wheel tractors were International. All industrial tractors were Internationals after the mid 1930's. Before the mid 1930's industrial tractors were McCormick Deering as were the other non Farmall standard tractors.

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Andy Cole

03-16-2007 12:29:38




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 Re: Decal confusion in reply to Harold H, 03-16-2007 07:39:31  
I just bought a 1946 Farmall A. Where could I get a set of the McCormick Deering Farmall decals you mentioned. Would this one have just the "A" in a circle or would it have the "Culti-vision" around the "A"?



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Nat 2

03-16-2007 12:20:49




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 Re: Decal confusion in reply to Harold H, 03-16-2007 07:39:31  
A couple of quick corrections to your history:

1. The Farmall name was downgraded to the model placard on the '56 (FIFTY-six) series, with International in big letters on the side of the hood.

2. The Farmall name completely disappeared from the tractors in 1976 with the "black stripe" '66 (SIXTY-six) series.

3. International Harvester completely disappeared in the '80s...



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Harold H

03-16-2007 16:08:38




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 Re: Decal confusion in reply to Nat 2, 03-16-2007 12:20:49  
Nat,

I agree the Farmall name was downsized to small letters over the model number with the 56 not the 66 series. It also disappered from the big tractors with the black stripe series around 1976. Earlier 66 series still had it in small letters. The 86 series were still designated Farmall and International in the catalog order book but the name Farmall did not appear on the tractor. This lasted untill 1981. However I believe Farmall continued in small letters on the 140 to the end of the 140 production in 1979 or 1980.

Harold H

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georgeky

03-16-2007 07:24:56




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 Re: Decal confusion in reply to Roger Mills, 03-16-2007 06:55:09  
Roger I am not sure, but this is what my book say's Farmall H-M with black 1939-1952, McCormick-Deering W series 1946 and older,International for A,B 1939-1946 Mccormick for O and W series 1947 and newer, Shiney Farmall for A,AV,B,BN 1939-1946.I assume the International is for industrial models. The only one with black is H-M



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Brad in TX

03-16-2007 11:55:00




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 Re: Decal confusion in reply to georgeky, 03-16-2007 07:24:56  
I'm confused about the shiney vs. black emblem. I know I have always heard that the grille emblems on the A's and B's had a shiney background, and on my tractor its shiney. I just assumed that the paint had weathered off the emblem. Every vintage photograph or advertisement of an A or B tractor that I have seen shows the emblem to have a black background. Where does it say that they should be shiney?

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georgeky

03-16-2007 12:06:35




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 Re: Decal confusion in reply to Brad in TX, 03-16-2007 11:55:00  
In this book I am looking at. All the As and Bs I have seen have the shiney one. The ones sold new for As and Bs are shiney. The only ones in the parts catalog that are black are for H and M. Maybe the As and Bs with black ones have the wrong one because someone liked that one better. I dont know how they came new I am not that old, that is just what they sell now.



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Brad in TX

03-16-2007 12:32:34




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 Re: Decal confusion in reply to georgeky, 03-16-2007 12:06:35  
I know that's what I don't understand. All the replacements for A's and B's are shiney, about 95% of the restored tractors I've seen in books show them shiney, but every piece of old literature or vintage photograph that I've seen show them to be black. Just curious that's all.



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Roger Mills

03-16-2007 07:47:07




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 Re: Decal confusion in reply to georgeky, 03-16-2007 07:24:56  
Thanks, that clears up the emblem part, does the book say anything about any decal differneces in the "standard" vs "row crop"? And by "standard" do people mean a trike like the B??



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georgeky

03-16-2007 08:04:39




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 Re: Decal confusion in reply to Roger Mills, 03-16-2007 07:47:07  
The row crops usually have tricycle fronts. the standards are the W and I series with wide fronts, the O series are wide fronts. The row crops either have McCormick-Deering Farmall and the newer ones have McCormick Farmall. The standards will have McCormick or McCormick-Deering or International depending on when made and whether or not it is a industrial or ag tractor. Harold H has explained all this in his post.

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Harold H

03-16-2007 07:55:00




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 Re: Decal confusion in reply to Roger Mills, 03-16-2007 07:47:07  
A standard tractor is a non row crop wheel type tractor such as the W-4 through W-9 series tractors. Although some wheel spacings may be slightly changed, they cannot be adjusted for row crop spacings. Row crops are designed for crop clearance and may be a tricycle with either single front or dual front wheels or have a wide front end. The rear wheels, and front wheels on wide front row crops, are adjustable to fit various row crop spacings. The B trike is a row crop tractor, ie Farmall.

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Roger Mills

03-16-2007 14:23:02




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 Re: Decal confusion in reply to Harold H, 03-16-2007 07:55:00  
Ok Herold I get it, I think. Let's see if this is right--an original A without the adjustable front end would be a standard and an A with the adjustable front would be a row crop?? And the difference is that the track width is adjustable more than a couple of inches. The ones where the rear slide on the axles would also be row crop?
I have several original brochures from 39 thru 41 (and a bunch of reproductions) showing the A,B,H,M and the photos show all of them having dark oulined letters in the Farmall emblem. All of them show McCormick Deering in small letters above large letter Farmall. The early ones do not show the Cultivision on the A and B but the later ones do, so that may have been a marketing thing after production was already started.

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Harold H

03-16-2007 15:57:17




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 Re: Decal confusion in reply to Roger Mills, 03-16-2007 14:23:02  
I agree with all except all Farmall A's were considered row crops, even the ones with the optional non adjustable front axle. They still straddled the crop and were used for row crop use. Actually the International I-A was almost exactly the same tractor as the Farmall A except for standard HD front axle and foot accellerator and could be used for row crop use, but it was a industrial just because IHC said it was. Confused? IHC liked to confuse at times.

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Roger Mills

03-16-2007 17:01:54




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 Re: Decal confusion in reply to Harold H, 03-16-2007 15:57:17  
Thats obvious by the number of replies to this post. According to my brochures the first A's had a non adjustable wide front and that was standard equipment, later a round beam adjustable front was optional and standard on the FAV. Then at about the time the IA came out with the square beam adjustable it was also optional on the A as well and was referred to as the 'heavy duty' version and later the round one was dropped. From what I have learned, mostly here, is that the round beam adjustable was installed on very few FAA tractors. One of the brochures shows a picture of the round one and talks it up pretty good. Thanks much for your help in sorting some of this out.

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Harold H

03-16-2007 19:05:10




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 Re: Decal confusion in reply to Roger Mills, 03-16-2007 17:01:54  
Actually, I believe the round beam adjustable front is the most common on Farmall A's, followed by the square heavy duty adjustable, with the non adjustable being the least common. I have nothing to back this up and may be wrong, but, that is what I have observed.

Harold H



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