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Super M

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Jeff McBride

04-14-2007 20:10:40

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I got this Super M. The motor was stuck so I never heard it run,put new pistons, sleeves ect ect ect. Put rebuild kit in carb, Electronic ignition. The tractor starts good and runs pretty good (has very slight miss) the problem is when you load it up- hooked it to a 6ft disc it starts missing real bad It sounds like the timing is off. I put a timing light on it and it is right on. Checked carb for dirt it looks fine tried turnig distributor but it didn't help. It looks to me like it has good gas flow thru the gas line. I re torqued the head bolts- didn't make any difference Adjusted the valves same thing. I have ran out of things to check. Any Ideas????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ?????

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Jeff McBride

05-22-2007 22:03:57

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Re: Super M in reply to Jeff McBride, 04-14-2007 20:10:40

Finally got it running right. Took head off and had it checked, it was cracked. So six hundred fifty big one later for new head it wouldn't start. Replaced one month old spark plugs and it runs like a top. Thanks for all the replies. You guy's make it fun working on these things,.
Jeff

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A. Bohemian

04-15-2007 09:37:20

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Re: Super M in reply to Jeff McBride, 04-14-2007 20:10:40

I must say, the problem sounds to me like inadequate compression on one cylinder. But your compression readings look good...

Start by checking the governor. It only takes a second. If the governor checks out ok, try the following.

Bad rings will often check good on a compression test and fail under load. Try a leak-down test. Use an air-pressure guage to see how quickly the compression leaks down. If it happens noticeably faster on one cylinder than the others, you may have found your problem.

I also note you installed an electronic ignition. If I read your post correctly, this was done AFTER the rebuild and you've never heard this tractor run correctly with this ignition.

New electronics can be bad out of the box. If the leakdown test doesn't find anything, you can try replacing the electronic ignition with original parts or a different electronic ignition; I would prefer the original system, but that is a personal preference based on my own experiences.

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Jason Simmerman

04-15-2007 20:05:37

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Re: Super M in reply to A. Bohemian, 04-15-2007 09:37:20

Note!!! If you do perform a leak down test you're gonna need to get the piston on the cylinder that your testing at least 3/4 of the way to TDC preferably all the way to TDC. Also lock the tractor in high gear and set the brakes. Chocking the wheels might not be a bad idea too. Doing a leakdown can cause a motor to kick over so be super extra careful.

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A.Bohemain

04-15-2007 09:40:45

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P. S. in reply to A. Bohemian, 04-15-2007 09:37:20

Almost forgot: what Owen said about isolating the cylinder. Most important!

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A. Bohemain

04-15-2007 09:43:56

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P.P. S. in reply to A.Bohemain, 04-15-2007 09:40:45

I notice you adjusted the valves. Did you grind/replace them and the seats?

Nice new rings often cause marginal valves to fail, and vice versa!

At least you've got a bunch of new stuff to check! Don't give up, you'll find it!

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Owen Aaland

04-15-2007 08:32:09

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Re: Super M in reply to Jeff McBride, 04-14-2007 20:10:40

The miss is present at RPM ranges? Is is blubbering or a steady miss? Carb misture problems will affect all cylinders and you will not be able to isolate a single cylinder as the problem.

You need to determine the cylinder that is causing the problem. Pull the plug wires one at a time and see which one makes the least difference. Make sure there is no intake leak on that cylinder. Switch the plug and wire with another cylinder. No air leaks and cylinder stays the same? Faulty distributor cap. Cylinder changes? Plug or wire.

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Jeff McBride

04-15-2007 08:08:59

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Re: Super M in reply to Jeff McBride, 04-14-2007 20:10:40

Used a whole can of carb cleaner while it was apart. put new float in and adjusted it. then the other day I took it apart again and adjusted the float to let in a little more gas but it didn't make any difference. I am afraid to take it any more as I am a little past what it should be set at. I think it is 1 5/16, off the top of my head

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RustyFarmall

04-15-2007 06:56:12

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Re: Super M in reply to Jeff McBride, 04-14-2007 20:10:40

Did you thoroughly clean the carb before you "put the kit in". Did you adjust the idle and load screws according to specifications? Your M exhibits classic symptoms of fuel starvation. A lot more is invoved in a carb rebuild than just "putting in a kit".

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John M

04-15-2007 07:15:23

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Re: Super M in reply to RustyFarmall, 04-15-2007 06:56:12

Thast exactly what I was thinking Rusty. Could also be an improperly set float.

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RustyFarmall

04-15-2007 07:23:07

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Re: Super M in reply to John M, 04-15-2007 07:15:23

Yes, and the float setting is a lot more critical than what some folks realize. The really sad thing is that the information for the settings and adjustments is not even included in some of those "cheaper" kits.

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Jeff McBride

04-15-2007 05:31:38

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Re: Super M in reply to Jeff McBride, 04-14-2007 20:10:40

Compression is 125 to 130 psi hot or cold. cam was not replaced but it looked good with naked eye

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Jason Simmerman

04-15-2007 06:24:21

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Re: Super M in reply to Jeff McBride, 04-15-2007 05:31:38

Alot of things look good to me with the naked eye, but my vision is 20/200 and I find alot of times when I eyeball stuff I'm wrong. Not saying the cam isn't bad, but you never really ruled that out when you rebuilt the motor. Dumb question here, but have you replaced the distributer cap??? I figured that might be one of the first things you would do but I'm gonna ask anyways. Could be a weak spring though too. I imagine you just threw a set of new springs in verses checking seat pressure, installed height, and so on a so forth.

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Jason Simmerman

04-14-2007 21:56:24

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Re: Super M in reply to Jeff McBride, 04-14-2007 20:10:40

Well, if it were the governor it would just lose power not pop and miss so I wouldn't suspect that "at least right off the bat"... Might be a cracked or not so well sealed gasket on the manifold, but not likely. With that miss and it missing slightly at idle and if it idles down nice I suspect you have one of two things are going on here. You have a sealing problem with one of your cylinders, or you have a cracked head. Under load a small miss will get worse because cylinder pressures go up IE getting hard into the governor and governor is adding more fuel and air. I'd get a compression gauge if you don't already have one and run the motor for about 10-15 minutes and run it around alittle and shut her down. Ensuring you have a good strong battery and hooking a charger to it pull all 4 sparkies out of it and screw your compression gauge into the sparkie holes. Crank her over 3 or 4 times and see what you got. My dad's M with a Super M sleeve and a domed piston kit which was redone 30 years ago has almost the same problem. I found that he has a valve leaking on the number 2 cylinder. Motor makes darn good compression particularly considering it's age between rebuilds (about 120 psi on cylinders 1,3, and 4 but cylinder 2 is only about 100). You should only have 10% of deviation from highest to lowest in your compression numbers. If you find you have one cylinder that is much lower than another squirt some motor oil in the cylinder and retest. If the pressure goes up by a noteable margin you have a ring sealing issue, if it stays the same it's most likely a cylinder head issue. Now, being it's a new rebuild maybe the rings aren't fully seated yet but in any event. Could be a weak valve spring also. I'm assuming you replaced all the components in the heads, but sometimes there are machining errors that occur. I'd do a compression check and go from there. It seems like you've covered everything else. Now make sure the motor is indeed sound.

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Jason Simmerman

04-14-2007 22:21:48

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Re: Super M in reply to Jason Simmerman, 04-14-2007 21:56:24

I also thought of this. Might be a bad cam lobe. Did you check the cam or just reinstall the old one???

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georgeky

04-14-2007 21:51:53

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Re: Super M in reply to Jeff McBride, 04-14-2007 20:10:40

Did you have the head checked out? Since it always has a slight miss, I would think it could be a burnt valve. Just a guess mind you. It could also be electrical. Not getting enough spark to the plugs.

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Jim Broughton

04-14-2007 20:50:48

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Re: Super M in reply to Jeff McBride, 04-14-2007 20:10:40

Jeff; Check your governor !! Best of luck, Jim B.

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