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Diagnoisis engine noise

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agpilot

05-01-2007 13:37:30




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Diagnosis of Engine noise: I am searching for information that will help determine what is making noise in a Farmall 4 cylinder gas engine. I would assume most of the mid 1950's engines would be similar but to be specific I'll ask about the 169 or 175 cu engine, If any of you haven't used a listening tube, you should try it. Sorta like a Doctors steth-o-scope. Most hardware stores have the clear plastic hose in various diameter. (I like using the half inch O.D.) Two bucks gets 4 foot of it. Cut the ends off square so that you can place one end flush against any flat surface and the other end close to your best ear. Using an ear plug on the other ear helps focus your ability to listen to just the sound coming through the tube and into your best ear. Having it FLUSH to the engine surface will help seal out unwanted noise from the many other parts of a running engine. This isolation effect of using a tube is all important to your focus on only the sound of a broken-damaged internal part. OK... with this tube method in mind, I'd like some comments from those who have had to repair engines that have had a knocking sound from the upper engine block. Take a worn piston wrist pin as an example. What happens to that sound when the engine is put under slight load just above idle? What changes that sound when removing the spark plug to that cylinder? Get the idea. I am looking for comments to indicate what TYPE of a knock is related to the the piston or rod. I'll assume the oil pan and lower engine block is quieter. Yes, I know sound can and does display tricky symptoms but this is just to help reduce wild-eyed guessing and come up with a list of likely sounds to listen for with the various 4 cylinder engine problems. The head and related valve train is another list of sounds to check for. Thanks for any well tried tips from those who have had to fix those unwanted noises coming from pistons or rods. Thanks.. agpilot

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rumplestiltskin

05-02-2007 11:41:02




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 Re: Diagnoisis engine noise in reply to agpilot, 05-01-2007 13:37:30  

Determining how your “trouble” sound relates to engine RPM can help you zero in on its source. For example, if it clicks 1,000 times at 1,000 RPM, it’s likely crankshaft-related. If it clicks 500 times, suspect something related to the camshaft.

At typical idle speeds you should be able to hear and count the clicks for, say, 15 seconds, then multiply by four. Even if you’re off by a little, you’ll be able to tell the difference between 500 and 1,000.

Mark W. in MI

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Allan In NE

05-02-2007 03:22:30




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 Re: Diagnoisis engine noise in reply to agpilot, 05-01-2007 13:37:30  
It doesn't matter.

Looking for and trying to isolate a noise in an engine is like looking for the bad girl in a house of ill repute.

If there is noise, there is a problem.

However, with time and experience, a guy will be able to tell what's wrong from hearing the sound halfway across the yard.

Allan



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Janicholson

05-01-2007 17:55:17




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 Re: Diagnoisis engine noise in reply to agpilot, 05-01-2007 13:37:30  
The basic issue of interpretation of words into sounds (not to mention the differences between ability to hear) make the information you seak almost impossible to quantify. Experience and hundreds of hours of listening, then tearing down engnes is the only way it can be obtained in a usable form. unfortunately this is also a personal hard won talent that is nontransferable. Words like deep thump, or light tapping, or moderate knock, loose all meaning even between engines that are identical. Five mechanics diagnosed a bad rear main in a IH truck V8 in a 1600 loadstar. It was a broken flex plate. A badly worn valve guide can make noises identical to a broken ring, and seem localized to the same area when listening.
There are three rules.

If it is making new noise it is valve adjustment (if that doesn't fix it it is gong to be a lot harder to fix.

If the knock gets worse over one half hour's time it is toast. shut it off.

If it has a timing chain/tensioner and 150K miles it needs a new chain but it probably won't break anyway.

Good luck gaining the experience, and may the noise be comming from a customers unit.
JimN

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agpilot

05-02-2007 07:00:36




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 Re: Diagnoisis engine noise in reply to Janicholson, 05-01-2007 17:55:17  
Hello JimN: Your responce was very interesting and most welcome. Yes, I am sure it can become quite subjective. Somewhat like asking several people which food tastes better. The finer points are hardest to explain... but I was hoping for some of the general rules and gave yours. Thank you. I look forward to reading more of your comments to other people. Good information like yours is well worth reading. Thanks again. agpilot

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the tractor vet

05-01-2007 16:27:28




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 Re: Diagnoisis engine noise in reply to agpilot, 05-01-2007 13:37:30  
Myself i perfer my LONG old wood handled screw driver .



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IH2444

05-01-2007 13:51:00




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 Re: Diagnoisis engine noise in reply to agpilot, 05-01-2007 13:37:30  
Based on recent experience using a mechanics stethoscope a bad rocker is hard to localize the noise on it seems to be everywhere and echoes inside the rocker cover. Also located a noisy pilot bearing with it. Well got it down to the clutch area anyway.



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agpilot

05-01-2007 16:26:02




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 Re: Diagnoisis engine noise in reply to IH2444, 05-01-2007 13:51:00  
Hello IH2444: Yes the valve train can have a lot of noise. I am hopeing for tips on noise coming more from the engine block. The ability to understand how different problems generate a specific noise can be helpful. This is the info I am hopeing for. Thanks... agpilot



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