Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
:

Mag check for beginners

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Mike CA

05-10-2007 18:25:18




Report to Moderator

I have an H4 Mag on my '44 H that won't run. Someone suggested I should start there to look for trouble. I know nothing about a Magneto, so can you guys do 2 things for me:

1) explain how a mag works

2) explain how I should check to ensure the mag is working correctly, and what I should do if it isn't

Thanks!




[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Nat 2

05-11-2007 05:19:03




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mag check for beginners in reply to Mike CA, 05-10-2007 18:25:18  
1. Pull the mag off the tractor.
2. Hold the mag so the disributor cap is firmly pressed into your gut.
3. Turn the shaft.

You'll know if it's working :)



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Mike CA

05-11-2007 08:55:48




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mag check for beginners in reply to Nat 2, 05-11-2007 05:19:03  
I was born at night.


I wasn't born last night.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
El Toro

05-11-2007 04:36:57




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mag check for beginners in reply to Mike CA, 05-10-2007 18:25:18  
third party image

Pull the coil wire from the mag's cap and hold it
within 1/8-1/4" of good ground and have someone crank over the engine to see if there's any fire.
You may want to use a pair of insulated pliers so you don't get bitten. If there's no fire or very weak fire clean those points with some 320 wet or dry until nice and shiny. Make sure the gap is at .013". If the points are pitted replace them. You should have a nice hot blue fire. Your coil could be weak too if its the original. One other thing is some of the mag's lose their magnetism and this is what creates your fire when they pass by the coil. This is easy to check by removing the coil.

Take a flatblade screwdriver and touch those magnets. They should attract that screwdriver with some effort. It's not going to shock you either. Don't pull that mag off the engine until
you see where the rotor is pointing. Make a sketch on paper and don't rotate the engine while the mag is removed. Hal
PS: Here's a mag with the magnets exposed.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bob

05-10-2007 22:48:43




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mag check for beginners in reply to Mike CA, 05-10-2007 18:25:18  
Link



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dave Sherburne NY

05-11-2007 17:50:19




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mag check for beginners in reply to Bob, 05-10-2007 22:48:43  
like this



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Mike CA

05-10-2007 23:17:16




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mag check for beginners in reply to Bob, 05-10-2007 22:48:43  
That's funny Bob, I was using the archives and I saw where you posted that link in September of last year. Of course I saved it. Now you post it here.

Many thanks!



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bob

05-11-2007 07:00:15




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mag check for beginners in reply to Mike CA, 05-10-2007 23:17:16  
It's tough to beat the REAL factory manual.

This site WON'T allow it to be posted as a "hot link", though, for some reason.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
banjo

05-10-2007 20:13:42




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mag check for beginners in reply to Mike CA, 05-10-2007 18:25:18  
also take the wire off the side of the mag to make sure it isn't a bad kill switch grounding it out.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Steven@AZ

05-10-2007 20:10:23




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mag check for beginners in reply to Mike CA, 05-10-2007 18:25:18  
Start by looking at the distributor cap and rotor. If there is visible damage and/or cracks or carbon tracks - you will need to buy new cap and rotor (get points and condensor while you're at it).

Then you can move on to turning the tractor over... if you don't hear an audible "click" then you have an impulse coupling problem.

If you DO hear a click, then pull a wire from a spark plug and turn it over at least four or five complete revolutions while holding the wire about 1/2" away from a ground. You should get a nice blueish spark. If there is no spark or just a faint yellow spark, then start with new points and condensor. Set the points to .013" and check again for spark... if none of that works, come back with more questions!

This all works best with a manual that goes through the steps of how to take off the cap and rotor, set the points, etc. I had pictures at one time, but my computer has crashed about three times since then :o(

Where you at in CA? If you get terribly stuck I can always take a weekend vacation ;o) I'll be gone from June 15 through the end of July though.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Mike CA

05-10-2007 20:59:30




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mag check for beginners in reply to Steven@AZ, 05-10-2007 20:10:23  
You are NOT driving 8 hours to help me get a tractor running. I don't know about AZ, but here gas is $3.36 a gallon.

I am going to order my manuals soon. I have to scrape some money together. It's $75 for me to get the 3 I need.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
JayWalt

05-10-2007 20:04:18




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mag check for beginners in reply to Mike CA, 05-10-2007 18:25:18  
ohh lots of typos, hope you can understand it!!

When the heck is the forum going to get better software?!?!?! This stuff is like out of the 90s or something =(
Plus it would be nice to have an actual account so people could send and recieve pms, let people know what they have in their shed, and stuff like that, and post counts so u know if someone has been on here a while and is trustworthy.

OH WELL, the site is free, so I cant complain mush, just dont complain about my typos =P

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bob

05-10-2007 22:42:28




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mag check for beginners in reply to JayWalt, 05-10-2007 20:04:18  
WHY would anyone want MORE pms????

We have enough of it around my house, already!



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
JayWalt

05-11-2007 03:26:19




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mag check for beginners in reply to Bob, 05-10-2007 22:42:28  
pms = "private message s"

=P



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bob

05-11-2007 07:23:16




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mag check for beginners in reply to JayWalt, 05-11-2007 03:26:19  
Jay,

My post was (obviously a poor attempt) at a JOKE!

Do you have a PMS'Y unit at YOUR house? If you had the unit I have, you would take every attempt at getting a laugh, as the day goes by!



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
banjo

05-10-2007 23:01:35




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mag check for beginners in reply to Bob, 05-10-2007 22:42:28  
Sometimes i'd like to get rid of some of it around here.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
A. Bohemian

05-10-2007 20:01:39




Report to Moderator
 Two Simple Steps in reply to Mike CA, 05-10-2007 18:25:18  
(1) Make sure the engine is free, first. If I understand correctly, you need to be able to turn over the engine to check the impulse for correct operation.

(2) Use the search function and list of articles on the side to do a little reading. I don"t think anyone who knows has time to write a tutorial right now.

After you"ve done a little background reading, come back here with SPECIFIC questions and I think you"ll get a better response.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Mike CA

05-10-2007 20:42:13




Report to Moderator
 Re: Two Simple Steps in reply to A. Bohemian, 05-10-2007 20:01:39  
Ok, that makes sense, but I didn't have luck with "Search" last time I tried a while back, so it turned me off to the whole deal.

I'll give it another try right now.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
JayWalt

05-10-2007 20:01:03




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mag check for beginners in reply to Mike CA, 05-10-2007 18:25:18  
mike I dont know the specifics on these tractor, but I do know the difference, its fairly simple.

a Magneto system uses cound coil to produce the spark. a magnet passes by the coild and produces an electric spark, which is directed to the right cylinder through the distributor. With this method, no battery is needs, especially if it has a hand crank to start it and u dont need lights.

A non magneto system uses a battery to power a coil, or autotransformer. This autotransformer turns the 12v into tens of thousands of volts to create a spark. The dc current is turned into pulsating dc (which is require to allow the autotransformer to work) via the points. The high voltage is then directed to the right plug the same way as the magneto system.

To me there is not much advantage to with system. The magneto system can run with a dead battery, whereas the non magneto cannot.

I would imagine that a typical coil system could produce a much stronger hotter spark, especially with an aftermarket coil and electronics ignition (which replaces the points).

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Boyero

05-11-2007 00:40:07




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mag check for beginners in reply to JayWalt, 05-10-2007 20:01:03  
I will add this about the magneto vs the "mechanical" ignition: If the starting crank speed is low, then the magnet rotating in the magneto coil doesn't generate much voltage (which is proportional to the speed of turning), perhaps not generating enough to spark well. Some systems (though not on tractors, afaik) can gear up the magnet rotation while starting. The mechanical system generates the same voltage whether starting or running (the battery voltage, of course).

You can find out more about these systems at Link and lots of other places - remember that Google is your friend, particularly for general questions like this.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Steven@AZ

05-11-2007 06:58:50




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mag check for beginners in reply to Boyero, 05-11-2007 00:40:07  
Actually, the magneto will probably generate a better spark during starting because for the distributor type the starter is drawing so much power from the battery there isn't much left to make a spark...

In my experience, my magneto equipped tractors start quickly and run great - the distributor equipped will do the same IF the battery is fairly new and fully charged. The slightest discharge on the battery makes them start hard - when the battery is low on those, I start with the hand crank so more power gets to the distributor.

Also, when I can't afford a new battery my magneto equipped tractors keep on going.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
F-Dean

05-11-2007 06:13:29




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mag check for beginners in reply to Boyero, 05-11-2007 00:40:07  
Apparently the people at Wikkipedia haven't heard about impulse couplings. IHC made thousands of them to solve the problem you describe.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Boyero

05-11-2007 09:37:46




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mag check for beginners in reply to F-Dean, 05-11-2007 06:13:29  
OK, that's useful to know. Wikipedia is written and edited by members of the user community, so perhaps it needs some editing in that article. Note that the article is about magnetos and other ignitions in general, not just for FarmAll tractors or even just tractors. I presume that in 1943 all H's would have magnetos, and the addition of a battery and starter would be a special package. Would that then have included dropping the magneto as well, or are magnetos universal for this make and year? I notice the tuneup kit reads "Not for use with on early models with magneto". So, to get really basic, how can I determine which kit I need?

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
F-Dean

05-11-2007 17:30:59




Report to Moderator
 Re: Mag check for beginners in reply to Boyero, 05-11-2007 09:37:46  
The Distributor is a little diferent on the mag. I suggest you take your old parts to a dealer and have parts people match them -- That's what I had to do to get the right items.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy