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Pros and Cons to using oil as coolant

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JohnG(TX)

05-11-2007 08:44:16

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I have heard that some farmers were using oil in the cooling system instead of water. I can see several advantages to this, along with some drawbacks. Here is what I can think of:

Pros:
No rust in the water jacket and radiator.
No freezing and busting of the block.
If you have a cracked block, you don't trash your oil and engine by having water in the oil.
Water pumps stay lubricated.

Cons:
Possibly slower heat transfer to oil than water.
Water boils to remove heat, oil does not, so maybe overheating.
Radiator hoses degrade in contact with hot oil.
Thermosyphon may be slow with thick oil in winter.
Radiator leaks will leave oily spots that don't evaporate.

I'm sure others have views on this. Suggestions? Ideas?

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NawlensGator

05-12-2007 08:04:10

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Re: Pros and Cons to using oil as coolant in reply to JohnG(TX), 05-11-2007 08:44:16

The specific heat of oil is about one third that of water. The same amount of heat will therefore raise the temperature of oil 3 times that of water.

The rate of heat transfer from the engine to the coolant is proportional to temperature difference between the engine and the coolant. At the same coolant circulation rate, the oil will be hotter than water and therefore the heat tansfer rate to the oil will be lower. The engine will therefore run ALOT hotter with oil coolant to transfer the same heat generated by the combustion.

One BTU of heat will raise the temperature of one pound of water one degree F while oil will heat up 3 degrees F. If the water heats from 90 to 200 deg F, the oil will heat to 420 deg F. Based on some approximations, yout engine metal parts will run at least 80 to 100 deg F hotter (probably worse).

Also:
1) The maximum temperature of water entering the engine is limited by the radiater pressure. If it is veneted, the maximum temperature is limited to 212 deg F. Oil on the other hand can get to 400 deg F or more.
2) Oil is lighter than water so your water pump, while circulating the same volume (actually less with oil due to higher viscosity), will ciculate about 20% less pounds per minute than with water.

Looks to me like you may reduce cooling side corrosion at the expense of burnning your engine up. Try it and let us know how long it takes to burn up the engine.

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Cedric

05-12-2007 04:19:56

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Re: Pros and Cons to using oil as coolant in reply to JohnG(TX), 05-11-2007 08:44:16

Just as a matter of interest, large marine Diesel engines use oil to cool the piston heads which are hollow for the oil to circulate through. As they are crosshead type engines it is relatively easy to set up pipe arrangements to get the oil into and out of the pistons. Smaller, medium sized engines with trunk pistons often cool the underside of the piston crown with oil sprayed from the top of the con. rod. A hole is drilled through the centre of the rod allowing excess oil from the con. rod bearing to travel up the rod, around the piston pin and spray out of the hole at the top of the rod.
These engines always have oil coolers.

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JayWalt

05-11-2007 20:07:09

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Re: Pros and Cons to using oil as coolant in reply to JohnG(TX), 05-11-2007 08:44:16

I find this rather amusing, disturbing and insane. I know I've had some crazy ideas, but mine are somehow logical. From all the evidence listed here from the guys, whoever told you that needs slapped a little bit =P.

Oil can be used as a coolant in a system specifically designed for it. Any normal water cooled engine is not by any stretch of the imagination. Dont Do It!!

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Haas

05-11-2007 18:53:43

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Re: Pros and Cons to using oil as coolant in reply to JohnG(TX), 05-11-2007 08:44:16

You would have to cirulate at least twice as much fluid using oil as with water to do the same amount of cooling. I don't think this would work at all except possibly in cold weather when you don't need as much cooling capacity anyway. Of course if the system is designed for it, it can work, as some of the old-old tractors used oil coolant.

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Bus Driver

05-11-2007 16:35:37

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Re: Pros and Cons to using oil as coolant in reply to JohnG(TX), 05-11-2007 08:44:16

In the days before permanent anti-freeze, some drivers would use kerosene as a coolant in cold weather. It probably worked reasonably well because of the cold air temperature. But a leak- very common in those days- could result in a cremated car.

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Vern-Mi

05-11-2007 12:41:49

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Re: Pros and Cons to using oil as coolant in reply to JohnG(TX), 05-11-2007 08:44:16

Try this product....

heat transfer oil

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chadd

05-11-2007 11:32:49

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Re: Pros and Cons to using oil as coolant in reply to JohnG(TX), 05-11-2007 08:44:16

I think Janicholson hit the nail on the head, the best coolant is the one with a specific heat that is greatest. For oil to be used as an effective coolant, a much larger radiator and cooling passages with more surface area would be required. Technically, diesel engines are partially "oil cooled" as their oil is cooled by running through a heat exchanger called an oil cooler, which then transfers heat to the water engine coolant. There are dozens of tubes in there to get enough surface area to transfer the heat to the water. This system is more a matter of preventing the oil from breaking down and becoming excessively thin due to high temperatures than actually cooling the engine itself. I don't know about the lubricating of water pumps, either. I wouldn't think it would help most water pumps remain lubricated, because, unless the seals are shot, the liquid they pump should not be in the bearings in the first place. The higher viscosity of oil will probably severely stress the shaft bearings from the extra bending load until the oil gets hot, though.
The heat transfer would be significantly slower, probably the equivalent of a thick layer of scale throughout the cooling passages. As I understand it, water should not boil to remove heat from an engine. If it does, it is the symptom of something wrong. The water is simply a working fluid that absorbs thermal energy and relocates it to the air moving through the radiator. If it is boiling you are not moving the heat elsewhere, and instead concentrating it in the water causing it to boil. Boiling of cooling water is one of the main causes of cavitation erosion in diesel engines (although it is caused by a local pressure drops around the sleeves, and not by the temperature).
Also, the thermosyphon may not work at all. In order for free convection to occur, the bouyancy force of the liquid must be stronger than the viscous force. Oil has very high viscosity, although it depends almost entirely on temperature. The engine would probably have to get quite hot before you would ever get the oil moving. Not to mention the fact that it isn't going to want to go through the radiator fins either. There are oil cooled motors out there, but they usually rely on air cooling to supplement the oil. Good topic, I never would have thought about using oil in the cooling system. . .

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Janicholson

05-11-2007 10:46:58

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Re: Pros and Cons to using oil as coolant in reply to JohnG(TX), 05-11-2007 08:44:16

The specific heat of water is 1.00. This number represents the amount of energy needed to raise the temperature of a CC of this material 1 degree C. (this is a shortened definition, and not through a phase change) Oils take from .3 to .5 as much energy to raise their temp. Thus they are poor coolants at best. JimN

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JohnG(TX)

05-11-2007 11:31:09

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Re: Pros and Cons to using oil as coolant in reply to Janicholson, 05-11-2007 10:46:58

Makes good sense, since oil is less dense than water, it would absorb heat faster and hold less energy. I guess the speed at which the oil flows through the system would have to be greater then the speed for the water.

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Janicholson

05-12-2007 05:57:38

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Re: Pros and Cons to using oil as coolant in reply to JohnG(TX), 05-11-2007 11:31:09

Look up specific heat. It is a very interesting concept. Gold has a specific heat of .04 compared to water at 1. Gold heats up so fast that it contains very little "volume" of heat. Oil also conducts heat less well. Oil quenching of carbon steel is done to temper the metal, quinching in water from the same temp will make it as hard as glass. JimN

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Nat 2

05-11-2007 10:07:58

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Re: Pros and Cons to using oil as coolant in reply to JohnG(TX), 05-11-2007 08:44:16

I can see where thick oil may be a problem for the water pump. It's not designed to move material with that much viscosity.

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Owen Aaland

05-11-2007 09:35:45

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Re: Pros and Cons to using oil as coolant in reply to JohnG(TX), 05-11-2007 08:44:16

Heat transfer rate is the biggest problem when going away from water to any other liquid for cooling. Even antifreeze mixtures will not transfer heat as effectivly as water and too strong a mixture can cause an engine to overheat. I have cured several heating problems by simply replacing a too strong antifreeze mixture with a 50/50 mix. You can get rid of the heat from the cooling liquid by using a larger radiator but the real problem is not transferring the heat from the engine into the cooling liquid. The engine can overheat but the coolant will not be boiling.

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BOBM25

05-11-2007 08:52:58

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Re: Pros and Cons to using oil as coolant in reply to JohnG(TX), 05-11-2007 08:44:16

What kind of oil are they using?

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JohnG(TX)

05-11-2007 09:50:30

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Re: Pros and Cons to using oil as coolant in reply to BOBM25, 05-11-2007 08:52:58

I think they were using engine oil, especially when they had a cracked block. They would drain the extra out of the crankcase and refill the radiator.

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