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M Clutch - Pictures anyone?

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Clarkbug

06-16-2007 09:31:16




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Hello all!

I am needing to adjust the clutch on my M, something just isnt right with it. The pedal "catches" right a the very end of the stroke. I have an inch or so of free play, and then I can actually feel that Im moving something. However, its very difficult to smoothly engage the clutch, and it usually ends up looking (and feeling) like I dont know how to use one.
I have an IT shop manual and the owners manual (one of which I hope has the adjustment instructions) but Im still not sure if I can adjust it so that things will work. I have been told that I can look at the clutch without splitting the tractor, which is a good thing.

But to be honest, I dont know what I should be looking for. I get the idea behind how a clutch works and all of those things, but Ive never had to change one, and I always hear to check for throwout and pilot bearings and whatnot, and Im just not sure what to look for.

Does anyone have any pictures of their clutch that I can use as a reference? If I end up having to tear into it, I really want to make sure Im doing things the right way.
If no pictures, any tips you might have are also much appreciated third party image

Thanks in advance, and sorry for the long post.

~Bug

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Clarkbug

06-18-2007 19:33:24




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 Re: M Clutch - Pictures anyone? in reply to Clarkbug, 06-16-2007 09:31:16  
Hi Jim.

Thanks for the input on that, I thought it was the same sorta thing, I have just heard it called a puck clutch before. I wouldnt think to use one on a tractor unless I was going to use it for pulling or something like that, I would think there are some circumstances where you want to slip the clutch a little, and that would just be hard on the flywheel.

But, Ill try and adjust the clutch that I have and see if its just out of adjustment there. If not, maybe Ill take a peek. I dont want to pull anything that I dont have to, trust me....
Ill post back and let you know what I find, if I find anything...

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Clarkbug

06-17-2007 15:07:41




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 Re: M Clutch - Pictures anyone? in reply to Clarkbug, 06-16-2007 09:31:16  
Sorry, Im not familliar with what a button clutch is... Any chance you could explain?



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Janicholson

06-18-2007 09:08:41




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 Re: M Clutch - Pictures anyone? in reply to Clarkbug, 06-17-2007 15:07:41  
Button clutches, Puck clutches, and similar driven disks, are substantially different than the dinner plate looking standard disk used in the original equipment on letter series. they look similar in the center, often with regular torsion damper springs, but the friction material is placed on the ends of arms that stick out radially like a starfish. The friction material is often creamic, metalic, or exceptionally durable simi-metalic composition that is often shaped like small disk brake pads,
They rarely have spring cushon between the surfaces, and so have an on or off attitude toward slipping when starting out (the engagement point). They are stronger than regular clutches abd wear longer. They are a bit tougher on the flywheel and pressureplate, but the advantages in durability and strength make them a good investment. Google images, button clutch disks, and you will see pages of what I am describing.
If it is a regular clutch with that same feel, it may be that the cushon sprongs between the friction surfaces have heat damage, and no longer provide any spring effect. OOORRRR the friction material has been contaminated with oil or grease. either one may (with continued working of the tractor) either stay bad, if the source of oil is continuous, or get better as time goes by. Either way, unless you are going to imvest time in removing a working clutch, I would leave it alone and learn its behavior. I just put a six button ceramic clutch set in my family Subaru Outback, and my wife likes ita positive feel, Good luck, JimN

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Clarkbug

06-16-2007 19:43:50




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 Re: M Clutch - Pictures anyone? in reply to Clarkbug, 06-16-2007 09:31:16  
Hi there Janicholson.

To answer your questions, or at least raise a few more of them...

I purchased the tractor in December, and I really didnt have a chance to try out the clutch (or notice how its not right) until a few weeks ago when I was trying to play with it to hook up some JD#5 mowers I bought for it. So, as far as I know, its been this way since I got it. Its not getting worse, but it does seem like sometimes I can engage the clutch smoothly, and other times it just grabs on me.

I realized after re-reading my previous post that I wasnt very clear about what I was saying for "end of stroke". If the tractor is moving, I can push in the clutch about two inches and it will stop. The "end of stroke" I mean is that when I release the clutch, I can pick my foot almost all the way back up before it will engage, and there isnt anything gradual about it. It just seems to catch right at the end.

As of right now, Im in VA and my tractor is in NY, but I hope to get back up there around the 4th of July so I can make this adjustment/tear into things. I wanted to try and put out some feelers/ask for advice now so I knew what I was getting myself into before I started the project. It would be a bad thing to tear the clutch out of my tractor and then leave it sitting half done.

Thanks for the tips, Ill make sure to post how things look, and hopefully get some pics while Im at it. Someone might be able to tell me if Im looking at a need for lots of parts or not....

And as a side note, I thought I had read on here that a good trick for the belly pump is to pull a few of the bolts, screw some threaded rod into the holes, and then tighten back up with nuts on the threaded rod. Then remove the other bolts, and slowly back the nuts down so that the pump will lower gradually. Any idea if that will work, or is that just a waste of time?

Thanks already, and Im sure more will be due before too long...

~Bug

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Janicholson

06-17-2007 13:15:12




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 Re: M Clutch - Pictures anyone? in reply to Clarkbug, 06-16-2007 19:43:50  
Do not remove the clutch, it is more than likely a button clutch, and if it is not slipping, it is OK and a great clutch. Getting used to the feel will take some experiemnce. JimN



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Janicholson

06-16-2007 14:10:14




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 Re: M Clutch - Pictures anyone? in reply to Clarkbug, 06-16-2007 09:31:16  
~Bug, several questions,
How long has it been this way?
Is it worse?
By "end of stroke do you mean that the tractor keeps moving until the clutch is pushed in almost to the very stop?

The freeplay seems close to correct, if adjusted this way:
Put blocks at the wheels so it will not roll.
Stand next to the tractor on the clutch side, and so you can do things.
Grab th pedal with your right hand and pull it away from the stop toward the front of the tractor (like you were using your foot).
The clutch should pull against the return spring pretty easily until it reaches the point where the throwout bearing touches the fingers on the pressure plate. hen it should get hard to push enough that you need to strain a little from that position. If it moved about an inch away from the platform stop, it is adjusted correctly.
If that is the case, and it starts and stops only when pushed way in, it has a problem that will require the wrenches.

To remove the clutch and all components but the flywheel, this is my sequence.
Remove the inspection cover to the rearof the belly pump.
remove the belly pump *** it is heavy enough to wound you, use a floor jack, and a helper***.(align the pump drive to vertical so it comes out).
Remove the drive coupling to the transmission. (it is best to take pics of it to be sure to get it right)
Mark the components with punch marks to be sure they go back as removed.
These drive couplings are the "fits" at times.
Remove three seperate clutch cover bolts at 120 degrees apart, and put them into the cover so that they release the pressure. there are three holes in the P plate for this. Then loosen the remaining bolts so the clutch cover is all but out. at this point the disk, and the shaft are so loose that with your tongue held correctly the shaft will come out.
Now remove the last few threads on the P plate, and remove it. Now the driven disk.
Be sure to lube the pilot bearing when putting things back together,if using it again. also wire brush the splines and check for wear grooving, if grooved, replace the shaft. I hope this helps, let us know in a new post if this one is buried. JimN

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