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The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen?

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Salmoneye

10-20-2002 04:28:21

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How did your Saturday go?

Mine was tooling right along.
We had the old wood furnace out of the basement and we were getting ready to install the new gas fired unit and I decided that I would just move that old woody a couple more yards away from the house. My Sisters' Farmall H had done beautifully lifting the woody up and out of the celler hatchway so this should be a breeze, right???

third party image

There are more pics at the link below...

My question is...how the HECK do I get that sucker back to the tool shed which is a good 100 yards???

The only thing holding it together is the gas tank and steering shaft as far as I can tell.
I lifted both halves and supported with log chunks so it is not going anywhere and the pressure is off the gas tank and the starter.
The starter is all that stopped it from completely folding and making it an even more 'fun' ride.

Well...Hope your Saturday went a tad better than mine!

:-)

More Pics...

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Terry Johnson

10-23-2002 18:39:24

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Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to Salmoneye, 10-20-2002 04:28:21

I am in agreement with the gentleman to cut up your loader frame! I would block up each half of the tractor, remove the loader and use the loader frame rails on either side of the tractor, like a splint on a broken leg. Bolt the end of the loader frame rail to the front end with the other end over the rear axle housing. Using chain and load binders under the break, fasten to both loader frame rails to act as a sling to carry the weight of both halves. This should get you back to your shed, if you stay under 5 mph.

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Salmoneye

10-21-2002 03:53:07

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Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to Salmoneye, 10-20-2002 04:28:21

I want to thank you all for looking and for your suggestions and sympathy!

I will let you all know whet we decide to do about this 'interesting' situation...

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rhouston

10-21-2002 06:47:13

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Re: Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to Salmoneye, 10-21-2002 03:53:07

I don't think the starter survived. looks crushed in last pic.

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Steven@nd

10-20-2002 19:29:02

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Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to Salmoneye, 10-20-2002 04:28:21

I feel your pain, one summer while I was mowing with our A I hit a hole with a front wheel and broke the steering case wide open. We took it all apart and welded it with nickel rod, has held up so far.

I have seen a couple of M's broke in half there because of loader work.

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Rick(MN)

10-20-2002 18:48:40

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Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to Salmoneye, 10-20-2002 04:28:21

I've seen this a few times. What has worked for me was to wrap a chain around each rear axle housing and bolt a loop to the frame rail on each side. Jack each half up at the same time to the level. I then took 2 ratchet type chain binders to draw them together. its been my experience that that a tracotr will tow nicely like that. We towed one 8 miles from his field to my shop to be repaired. But...what I should have said first was..... This will only work with the loader off the tractor.

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10-20-2002 13:12:22

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Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to Salmoneye, 10-20-2002 04:28:21

That is a bad day. I hate to see that happen to anyone. Best of luck swapping the case out and I would look for another loader or seriously alter the way that one works/attaches.

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Tim Malin

10-20-2002 09:11:56

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Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to Salmoneye, 10-20-2002 04:28:21

Man, I feel so sorry for you. I want to cry. That hurts. Good luck on repairing, I just hope I am never faced with a problem like yours. That's a heartbreaker.

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John Ne.

10-20-2002 08:32:39

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Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to Salmoneye, 10-20-2002 04:28:21

I would move it like this, First, get that loader off, drop it where it is, Then jack the whole rig up level again. Take a heavy log chain attach it to the left rear axle housing, run it under the belly to the right hand frame rail and bolt it on, then take a second log chain from the right axle to the left frame rail, so they crisscross under the belly and break, Take a 3rd logchain, from the hitch under the differential housing, securing it there, run it forward to the pedastle and secure it so the tractor is held together lengthwise, then pull it gently to the shop with another tractor, like the one guy said, get the battery, starter and fuel tank off first, they aren't broke yet, get em out of harms way. good luck, No way would I use a big loader tractor, you'll bust something else up for sure. John in Ne.

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Don LC

10-20-2002 08:05:19

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Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to Salmoneye, 10-20-2002 04:28:21

When you get the loader off your tractor -----cut it up and use the pieces to build something else..... those loaders have broke a lot of good strong tractors !!!!!

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ACSam

10-20-2002 07:05:06

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Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to Salmoneye, 10-20-2002 04:28:21

I think the first thing I would do is to very carefully remove the battery. And maybe try to drain the gas tank. Wouldn't want any suprise sparks. After that, I'm not sure. Safety First.

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Gene

10-20-2002 07:47:38

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Re: Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to ACSam, 10-20-2002 07:05:06

OUCH.. Ya, get that gas tank off of there.. unless you like adding risk of fire. Move in two seperate halves with another larger loader?
Better luck next time for sure. G.

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Bob in SE Nebraska

10-20-2002 06:55:24

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Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to Salmoneye, 10-20-2002 04:28:21

I see your problem in trying to figure a way to move the tractor. Wonder if a bigger tractor and loader could move it 1/2 at a time to your shop. My dad told me that these tractors had a weak spot but I had never seen the break actually happen. Some farmers around here had irons made up that added support to that area but I don't know if it helped stop the break from happening or if it just kind of held things together if the casting should break which would make it far easier to get it back to the shop. Good luck with your repair and let us know how it goes.

Bob

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Jim in michigan

10-20-2002 06:54:28

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Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to Salmoneye, 10-20-2002 04:28:21

I have seen a lot of H's with the same problem,,the loader is the culprit..if you have a loader on a H or any farmall without a actual frame then you have to use a loader with a sub frame,,have sen the same thing happen to Ford 8n's too,,,,Jim

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kev@ia

10-20-2002 08:50:12

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Re: Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to Jim in michigan, 10-20-2002 06:54:28

Jim is right these tractors gotta have the sub-frame that goes all the way back to the rear axel. Even if a loader has them all the bolts need to be checked for tightness.
Few years ago saw a 1066 with a sub-frame loader broke in the middle, not pretty.
farmer kev

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Hugh MacKay

10-20-2002 06:40:12

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Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to Salmoneye, 10-20-2002 04:28:21

Sorry to hear and see your misfortune. Those straight arm loaders are awfully hard on tractors. One could say castings are old and metal fatigue has set in. My dad broke his H like this when it was 3 years old. Same thing, straight arm loader. Bolt were not loose on dad's H. The engineering was not great on these loaders. Newer loaders with sub frames beef up the tractor. Tractor really isn't the best engineered vehicle for a loader but we all use them, economics is the name of the game.

Something you might look at, a good metal fabricator could incorperate a sub frame into that loader. All you need is heavy 6-8 inch chanel from rear axle housing to front bolster and anchored to clutch housing.

My dad's H broke just ahead of pedals, thus steering wheel pinned his trousters to seat. Luckily, trousters was all it caught. He had to use pocket knife to free himself.

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The Red. OH MY!

10-20-2002 06:37:35

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Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to Salmoneye, 10-20-2002 04:28:21

First time I have seen that happen!! It has been over 30 years since I have messed with vector analysis. It would appear the way that loader bolts to the frame that a lot of torque is transmitted to the clutch housing area. Take a real good look at the break. I bet some of it already has rust on it. I would bet it was already cracked around the bottom side. I will let others figure out how you move it in its current condition.

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RayP(MI)

10-20-2002 17:52:37

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Re: Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to The Red. OH MY!, 10-20-2002 06:37:35

That's what we call an "oh, sxxx!" Don't need calculus or vector analysis to see where the forces go on that setup. That was destined to put lotsa force on the tractor frame. Was that a commercial made loader, or homemade? Glad you weren't hurt. Good luck on putting it back together.

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Salmoneye

10-21-2002 03:48:48

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Re: Re: Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to RayP(MI), 10-20-2002 17:52:37

Commercial.

The manufacturers plate is still on one of the arms, but I have not made an effort to look at it yet.

I do have almost a whole other one of these loaders...if anyone is interested that is LOL

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Glenn(WV)

10-20-2002 12:06:35

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Re: Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to The Red. OH MY!, 10-20-2002 06:37:35

Vector analysis ... I forgot about that college nightmare. Yuck! ;-)

Salmoneye, I'm glad you weren't hurt. Wish I could say the same for the H.

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The Red

10-20-2002 14:30:45

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Re: Re: Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to Glenn(WV), 10-20-2002 12:06:35

That course wasn't too bad. Advance calculus was a bear though. I have never used differential equations since I finished that course 30 years ago.

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Dsl

10-20-2002 06:20:36

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Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to Salmoneye, 10-20-2002 04:28:21

I'd say to let the loader down until the beams are parallel to the ground, and then jack up both ends of the tractor, and wrap chains around the torque tube halves and the loader beams, bind them tight, and let the loader support them. Maybe another long chain around the axles and the front end of the tractor, and bound tight, to take the strain of towing.

Sorry about yer trouble :(

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Don LC

10-20-2002 08:30:29

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Re: Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to Dsl, 10-20-2002 06:20:36

Do like "Dsl" said but I think I would block up under the break with strong lumber to fill the void space and use "come-along's wrapped around and tightened---

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Harold Hubbard

10-20-2002 05:58:23

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Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to Salmoneye, 10-20-2002 04:28:21

Looks like you might be able to chain the loader arms to the front of the side frames, then run something heavy(I-beam, Channel iron, Oak log) through right behind the break in the bell-housing, and hold everything together with chains and binders. Might be a good idea to un-pin the hydraulic cylinders, in case something else goes wrong.

Where in Vermont are you? I live in Rochester.

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Salmoneye

10-20-2002 06:13:09

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Re: Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to Harold Hubbard, 10-20-2002 05:58:23

Thanks for the suggestion!

We live in Charlotte. My Sisters place where the tractor is, is almost exactly 10 miles south of Burlington.
I live on the other side of town...

Have not been 'up and over' through Rochester in years.
Used to make that trip twice a week when I was a hunter safety instructor at Camp Downer in Sharon.

Loved that ride...

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Jim in UK

10-20-2002 04:54:02

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Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to Salmoneye, 10-20-2002 04:28:21

I sure hope no one was hurt. This is something that I would've never thought capable of happening. I know that this will sound like a lot of work, and like some shadetree engineering, but it may work. Try jacking both the front and aft of the tractor at the same time. You will need a lot of blocks and bottle jack on the aft end. Put two Handy-Man (also know as Hi-Lift) jacks on the front of it. By jacking evenly, Hopefully you will get the housing somewhat close to lining up in the crack. Have a welder handy and run a few beads on it. It looks as if the housing along with a few other parts will need to be replaced. So welding it up and possibly putting some flat or angle on it to help support it isn't really going to ruin anything that isn't already in need of replacement. Another idea instead of welding, would be to make braces that would reach from the frame on the engine to the axle housings. This may also keep the tractor in one piece long enough to get it on level ground so the loader could be removed and the tractor split in order to make the repairs required. Be careful. This looks like it could get painful real quick.

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Salmoneye

10-20-2002 05:00:32

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Re: Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to Jim in UK, 10-20-2002 04:54:02

Thanks for the suggestion!

I have a sinking feeling that this is going to all have to wait till spring now.

I live in Vermont, USA and it is already snowing in the hills here.
Just want to get the sucker under cover before snowbound if possible.

Thanks Again...

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Jim in UK

10-20-2002 05:10:00

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Re: Re: Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to Salmoneye, 10-20-2002 05:00:32

Hey I can understand the part about the snow. I'll be leaving the UK headed back to New Mexico in December. When I left there five years ago it was snowing. Plan to spend some time at home in Texas, and show back up for work there in January. I am almost positive that there will be a litle snow on the ground. It's been awhile since I was up on the east coast, but do remember that Vermont is a very pretty place.

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Dan 130

10-20-2002 04:45:14

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Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to Salmoneye, 10-20-2002 04:28:21

OUCH!!!!

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F14 - OUCH!

10-20-2002 04:42:20

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Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to Salmoneye, 10-20-2002 04:28:21

Did the damages include a ruined pair of shorts? ":^)

It looks like the torque tube let go just aft of the clutch, is that right? Lotta work to fix it, but if that's the case, it IS fixable.

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Salmoneye

10-20-2002 04:47:07

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Re: Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to F14 - OUCH!, 10-20-2002 04:42:20

Fix it?

You mean FIX that case?

I have another case and figured I would just swap em...

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Fawteen

10-20-2002 04:53:37

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Re: Re: Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to Salmoneye, 10-20-2002 04:47:07

I meant 'fix the tractor' by swapping the case. Any damage to the clutch or transmission shaft? Or can you tell yet?

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Salmoneye

10-20-2002 04:57:36

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Re: Re: Re: Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to Fawteen, 10-20-2002 04:53:37

Doesn't look like it damaged a thing...even the starter that took one heck of a jolt seems alright.
Shaft and clutch look fine so far...time will tell on them.

Did dent the 'hood' sheet where it caught on the gas cap. That hood was perfect too, dangit...

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K-Mo

10-20-2002 04:41:30

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Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to Salmoneye, 10-20-2002 04:28:21

I have three tractors I bought in that condition. A Super M, H and I240 Utility. Mine were all broken at the ends of the clutch housing which I assumed was caused by loose bolts. This is the first time I've seen the casting break in the middle.
K-Mo

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Salmoneye

10-20-2002 04:45:38

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Re: Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to K-Mo, 10-20-2002 04:41:30

This is the scond time on this tractor.
The first was done by my brother-in-law while trying to lift a log the size of a VolksWagon.
I am assuming that it has to do with the loader.
Was just right in its' day for loading the manure spreader, but when asked to do more than that, the casting there just can not take it.

Only saving grace for me is that I have another whole parts tractor with a good casting sitting in the field.
I have to get that sucker to the shed to work on it this winter though!

Thanks For Looking!

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F14

10-20-2002 04:55:27

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Re: Re: Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Supposed To Happen? in reply to Salmoneye, 10-20-2002 04:45:38

Yeah, I was looking at how that loader mounts, and it do appear that it puts a LOT of stress right in the center of the tractor.

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Casstex

10-16-2003 19:33:00

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Re: Re: Re: Re: The Weakest Link...Is This Suppose in reply to F14, 10-20-2002 04:55:27

I have a IHC tractor model I240PL can anyone tell me how this compares to a 240A? I am trying to find manuals for this yellow industrial tractor.

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