Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Discussion Forum
:

HiLLs vs. narrow front end on farmall m

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Carlton hellems

06-18-2003 21:19:07




Report to Moderator

Which is safer for the hills.I live in the mountains of montana.I Would not do anything stupid, but is one safer than the other?




[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Chris B.

06-20-2003 23:11:12




Report to Moderator
 Re: hiLLs vs. narrow front end on farmall m in reply to Carlton hellems, 06-18-2003 21:19:07  
Here's another perspective on NF vs. WF: just imagine if you had both a NF tractor and WF tractor split. If the engine half was tipping, which would be easier to prop up, the NF with the pivot down on the ground or the WF with the pivot up higher.

I didn't come up with this analogy. I think it was from George Willer.

Chris B.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Hugh MacKay

06-19-2003 03:07:10




Report to Moderator
 Re: hiLLs vs. narrow front end on farmall m in reply to Carlton hellems, 06-18-2003 21:19:07  
Carlton: The big item on working any row crop tractor is set your rear wheels some where between 6' and 7' centers. The wide front would give very little additional safety. All it does is change the pivot point of tractor tipping from ground level with narrow front to top of axle with the wide front.

When your Farmall M was built everyone was growing their corn in 36" plus rows, thus all of them were set at 72" plus. We had two narrow front tractors years ago. Used them in a farm woodlot, never had a problem. Safety will have more to do with you than a narrow front. I remember one of the first old guys to install roll over protection on a tractor in our area. I asked him one day how he liked the ROPS. He said it just allowed my boys to become more reckless. Therein my friend lies the key to your safety.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Doug in OR

06-19-2003 18:02:34




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: hiLLs vs. narrow front end on farmall m in reply to Hugh MacKay, 06-19-2003 03:07:10  
I agree, Hugh. I was back in Wisconsin last week..... looking at the hills in the western part where I grew up. They looked steeper now than they did back then. We planted corn spaced at 40 inch rows. The center spacing on the rear tires was 80 inches, of course. We *never* felt like we were going to tip. Most accidents involved the front end rearing up. Almost all tractors were NF at that time (early 60's). For what it is worth, we ran fluid in the rear tires - I don't know if that helped or not to keep from tipping over.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Hugh MacKay

06-19-2003 19:35:58




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: hiLLs vs. narrow front end on farmall in reply to Doug in OR, 06-19-2003 18:02:34  
Doug: I think any weight added to the rear of these old row crops helped. Putting chloride in the rear tires of a Farmall M would give same effect as the heavy wheel on the A and SA. I can honestly say I've had a lot more thrills or chills , which ever you want to call it on modern tractors with ROPS protection than I ever had on the old H and 300 with narrow front.

In the 60s and 70s I ran duals a lot on the newer 560, 656 and 1066. You get those big ones with the outside width up to 11' or 12' then you really have stability.

You are right on the money, those old row crops weren't very heavy up front, and it really didn't matter what make. There have been more farmers killed with front end of tractor coming up and going over backwards than there ever was from rollovers. In the area where I farmed I know of several deaths from tractors rearing up and going over backwards. I also knew of a couple of rollover deaths neither on narrow front row crops. PTO shafts also took their toll.

Speaking of row widths I see a very dangerous practice going on today in corn and bean country. They are running 100+ hp 4x4 tractors on 60 inch centers. Not so bad in spring when they have their duals on, but you see them going hauling gravety wagons 3 and 4 in a string. Some of those newer grain wagons are holding 400 + bushels. They are getting a lot of weight behind them and weight 3 and 4 wagons back is much worse than if its close to tractor. I can see a tractor like that coming off a field, making a 90 degree turn onto a gravel side road. I can see if tractor is in 4 wheel drive and those grain wagons start pulling a bit hard for several reasons. With those front wheels pulling and tractor set on 60" centers, I can see the side draft flipping that tractor right in the middle of a level road. I can also see it wouldn't be a very pleasant experience for the operator, as my guess is that tractor will go just like a slam dunk. When it happens it aint going to be pleasant, I don't care how much ROPS protection he has. I can not figure why they don't leave the duals on. You will get twice the tread wear from your tires on hard ground running dual as you will single. My 1066 peeled off a set of single tires in the first 1,000 hours. I put the duals on with all new tires and at 9,000 hours the 4 tires were still going strong. With todays farming forget your weight, get your traction from putting more rubber on the ground, it will cost you a lot less money, and may be your life..

Just in case anyone wants to question my credentials, I farmed for a number of years with as many as 9 tractors 4 trucks and 10 employees. Probably put 75,000 hours on those tractors and never had a lost time accident.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
JB

06-19-2003 20:39:15




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: hiLLs vs. narrow front end on farm in reply to Hugh MacKay, 06-19-2003 19:35:58  
We had SC with both front ends. Changed to row crop for corn cultivating and hay mowing. Always used the wide front end when using the front end loader. One time during the summer a neighbor wanted some dirt moved with the loader and we had the narrow front end on. My Dad went over to move it and it was on a bit of a slope. To make a long story short, with the bucket full of dirt, the rear wheel on the down side of the slope dropped into a hole the rear wheel on the upper side came off the ground about a foot and just free wheeled until the bucket was lowered.

Be careful with row crop front end and loader.

JB

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Hugh MacKay

06-20-2003 04:51:44




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: hiLLs vs. narrow front end on in reply to JB, 06-19-2003 20:39:15  
JB: Yes I can agree with that one, however it is not unique to narrow fronts. My dad had his first loader on a 51 H narrow front then a 55 - 300 narrow front. I have loaded many many loads with those old Farmalls. My biggest thrill however came several years back when the same thing you describe happened when I had borrowed my neighbors 8950 Kubota 4x4 to move some top soil. It is not a comfortable feeling even in a ROPS cab.

Operators of heavy construction loaders will tell you one of their worst fears is going to work in morning and finding a soft front tire on loader. With a bunch of dump trucks lined up, the big brass on the other end of that mobile communication will undoubtedly tell him to load the first round and they will have a service truck there to pump the tire. Many are tempted to refuse, however they also have a bunch of angry truck drivers hauling by the ton mile, as waiting companions. I have not done a lot of loading with , heavy loaders but will tell you this, you don't want any side elevation when you put as much as 10 ton 14 feet in the air. Those machines are not a lot wider than the old Farmall.

Most loader incidents on row crop narrow fronts have resulted with loader just a bit too high for conditions. In a lot of cases it has been tractor upset rather than tractor rollover. The tractor will land on its side, prevented from going further because loader was high enough to stop it from doing so. Most of those guys walked away with bruises, the worst one being their pride. Many of them hoped no one would ever find out and many times that was the case. I remember one old guy, had farmed in partnership with his brother for years. They were as far as the general public was concerned very careful farmers, the kind of guys that never got in trouble. His brother had died and one day he got in a mess and had to go to neighbors for help. Neighbor said," I thought you and brother Jim never did these foolish tricks." The old guy replied," We had our share you just never found when there was two of us."

If one knew and recorded the close calls that happened around farms, that statistic would be far more scary than the actual injuries and fatalities that have happened. While I staked my claim in previous post to having no lost time accidents, the close calls were indeed there. We were truly blessed. I did make a practice every time one of those close calls happened, to review why it happened with employees.

Remember this, every machine is as dangerous as you make it.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy