Sleeves in a C113 engine block

I've got two C113 engine blocks -- both have the same casting number, 251069R1. Block A had been previously rebuilt using a thinner walled sleeve for a 3 1/8" piston. Block B has the original 3" sleeves in it.

I bought a new 3 1/8" set of sleeves and pistons that my machine shop guy installed in Block A a while ago. He had to bore out the existing sleeves, but that wasn't a big problem. Everything fit just fine.

For reasons that I'm too embarrassed, ashamed, and generally feel *really* stupid about, Block A is no longer a good block. (I have an ugly first timer story about this project that I'll save for later...) So, enter Block B. I'm pulling all the parts I bought for Block A and putting them in Block B. My machine shop guy, though, has run into something interesting...

The tops of the sleeves appear to be the same outside diameter, which makes sense...both the original and the new, thinner sleeves are same from the outside top. But, as he's started to bore out the original sleeves on Block B, he's concerned that the outside diameter of the *bottom* of the existing sleeves is smaller than the outside diameter of the new sleeves. (The new sleeve OD at the bottom is 3.312 and, nearest we can tell, the OD of the existing sleeve at the bottom is 3.250.) If that's the case, and he needs to bore a larger hole for the new sleeves, what happens to the O-ring groove? We're worried that if the bottom diameters of the sleeves aren't the same, we'll have problems sealing the lower part of the sleeve.

Given that the block casting numbers are identical, I can't help but think that whatever we're running into here was what the previous owner of Block A ran into when he redid the block with the overbore kit.

I hope that makes some sense. Am I missing something obvious? (It happens a lot.)

Many thanks,

- David

'50 C (in many pieces)
'55 400D

Many thanks for the info. To summarize, it sounds like I've got two different blocks, even though they have the same casting number. The difference is in the sleeve bottom sizing. My current rebuild kit is designed for the larger size, but the block I'm trying to put them in is the smaller.

Is it a completely stupid idea to bore the block to the sleeve size and use a different O-ring? Or, is it better to ditch the sleeves and buy new ones to match the 3 1/8" pistons I have now?

- David

Thanks for all the notes. So, there's still some strangeness going on... The two blocks definately have the same casting number -- verified it myself twice. That said, block A appears to have the larger bottom bore. The sleeves I've got are the 3-3 1/8 overbore kit...i.e. thinner walled sleeves to fit in the original bores.

About the only thing I can think of that explains everything is that the previous owner of block A bored out the bottom sleeves by 1/8" of an inch to fit the newer style sleeves. If that's the case, he either enlarged the O ring groove, used a smaller O ring, or just lubed it all up really good and shoved 'em in. (I suppose you'd be sure you'd have a really tight seal down there...)

I'm out of town for a few days this week -- talked to my machine shop guy over the phone last night, and he's thinking that we can just enlarge the bottom bore and squeeze the O rings. Once I'm back in town, I'm taking block A back over to him so we can do some more measuring with the blocks side-by-side.

In any case, I'll post again once we look into things in more detail this weekend.

(Is this stuff fun or what?!)

- David

• sleeves- C 113

The info in the other posts is good also, there shouldn't be any boring involved here. They are replaceable sleeves that are fairly easy to pop out with a puller, if he's boring them out I'd find another machinist.
Stan(VA).

As I said in my previous post,I'm new to farmall and was hoping you would get more opinions than mine and one other.

If it were me, I'd do some more checking before I let the machine shop do any boring on your block.

G'day mate!

• Link

Anyways, I've been through quite a few of these motors in the past 10 years and the C/Super C sleeves are definately different (as described in my earlier post ref'd by Gary and my 2nd response to David).

Where you are absolutely right though is in the later motors. Specifically, the C123 block from a Farmall 240 is designed to take the smaller sleeves and came from the factory with the equivalent of the 3" to 3 1/8" overbore kit with the thinner sleeves. It suprised the heck out of me the first time I saw it, and that is the engine I ref'd in the post to David that I experimented with by boring to accept the larger sleeves from a Super C (3 7/16" OD).
Stan(VA).

But, I think you have the wrong sleeves..... ...
From what little I have read here...there are overbore sleeves for the c and then there are Super c sleeves of the same 3 1/8 dia.

The way I understand it, they are different and the part you mentioned about the bottom being a different dia....if I remember right...is actually a sleeve for the super c engine.

I'm sure someone "in the know"...will post to straighten you out.

Hope this helps untill someone else posts.